305 Builds

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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Limey SE on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:26 pm

I will start My Own thread CapTain !!

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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:28 pm

Fire away. Once I get going I'll add to my build thread. It's gonna be a bit. Wheels came in today, tires next.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by bracketchev1221 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:22 am

Yeah they get expensive. My engine is at the machine shop right now. Trying to make hopefully another 50-75 hp.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by 73ss on Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:19 pm

dynchel wrote:
73ss wrote:
dynchel wrote:The 305 heads I have have are. 58cc.  They were pulled from a '84 Monte Carlo, it even had a aluminum intake marked GM cfm.

If you can, measure the intake. If it's a 1.84, You've most likely got a set of HO heads. HO motors got 9 maybe 9.5 CR, up from the standard 8-8.5:1. Was the Monte an SS? "G" in the vin is HO. Those heads would give mom's camaro you mentioned earlier a good 20-25 horse bump. Most of GM's lineup got an aluminum intake in 80's to shed weight. They are not a bad piece. The 76cc heads would not have come on a 305. Small bore, small chamber. Most of the aftermarket heads listed in the above articles are 305 specific. I think it was the world heads had altered valve angles to clear the small bore. On the flip side, Guys have put 305 heads on a 350, Cheap way to build some good compression, but at the cost of a small intake valve.
They are the h/o heads.  Last three numbers being #416.  It was not a SS, maybe a LS?  I had them gone through, a valve replaced, and the valves ground.  They really woke up my 350 (had '76 cc smoggers) I believe the valves were 1.88

Thats cool that you woke up your 350 with those heads. Good info. I don't think the HO's came in the LS Monte's. The HO motor was rated at 190 hp. I think it was a 40 hp bump over the standard 305. They had a bump in compression, a tad more aggressive cam, Re-designed "Y" pipe, and a large opening CAT. If I recall the cat was a vette piece. They also got a higher stall converter and  the valve body was specific to the HO motor. I used to have articles and paper work on this stuff years ago. I'm wanting to say the 416 heads were the first of the modern swirl port design. My sister bought a monte SS new in 86. I put a "JET" chip in it (anyone remember those?) and fiddled with the q-jet. never raced or dynoed it but it ran quite strong, for back then anyways, I figured it was good for mid-hi 14's. Even with the mods, you could watch the tach and it was all done by 4500-4600 rpm.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by dynchel on Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:19 pm

The car was a bondo buggy POS that a kid I worked with bought (and over paid for) he blew it up on the drive home (as well as the 350 that replaced it cuz he didn't take overheating seriously) I got my #416's for free. Smile
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by BBMALIBU on Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:11 pm

Roadcaptain S3 wrote: But the idea of keeping my orig 305 and playing sleeper

Roadcaptain S3 wrote: I have a 383 sitting in his shop that I pulled from my 75 Laguna years ago and he screeched and pointed at it.

I am all for thinking outside the box, but I never thought I would hear someone opt to build
a 305 (for performance) over installing an already owned 383.

Maybe install a mild cam in the 383 to make it appear as if its a 305.
Combined with 305 decals on the valve covers and air cleaner.

Just a thought.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:34 pm

I might.

But I'm not going to build it for performance. It's not a race engine.
I don't need 500 HP and 600 TQ to drive it around on weekends.

Neither do most guys with hobby cars. Seriously, why on earth does anyone NEED a Hellcat? So they can go half a block really fast? So they can pile up tickets and lose their license? So they can kill themselves because they have NO clue how to handle a car like that?

C'mon.

Lots of people spend a lot of money to build high horsepower engines. Then they sit  on their a**es and tell everybody how fast their car is.
They have WASTED a bunch of $$ for ego and what they consider bragging rights.
You will see a lot of those cars on CL and Ebay listed as "projects". They have big, shiny new engines and a big long list of all the upgrades they have done for the sake of HP.
That big shiny engine is sitting in a rusted pile of **** with no brakes or transmission.
And their big shiny new engine would probably get blown away buy a kid in a V6 Mustang.

That's stupid.

A lot of car guys hear other car guys say things and assume it's a fact. They parrot what they hear others say even though they themselves have no direct knowledge or experience with whatever subject they are talking about.

Read through this thread. How many of the poo-pooers have built a 305? I'd guess none. And a some have probably never built an engine at all. But many of them say it can't or shouldn't be done. Why? because they've heard it said over and over again so it must be true.

"Drop in a crate, it's cheaper". No it isn't, if done right.  I know because I did.

A 96 Impala SS is generally considered by many to be a fairly quick car. Why? "it had a Corvette motor". 260 hp LT1 from the factory.

"drop in an LS" read through the threads here of the guys that did it. It ain't that cheap and it sure ain't easy. It took real $ and real skill.

Camaro and Trans Am? 305s for years pushing 300 HP at times. Nothing wrong with 250-300 hp for a street car.

And it can be done MUCH cheaper than finding a decent small block and completely re-building it or "dropping in a crate"

No brainer, but it requires a little thought instead of just repeating what others say.

I may be way wrong. But it will be fun to find out, and really fun if it works.
We'll see.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by fasrnur on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:24 pm

Very well said Roadcaptain, very well said. I personally prefer to build my own engine because of my first experience with a "built" big block. It didn't run as well as the guy said it did and  wound up rebuilding it by myself when I was 19. Did it last very long? Nope! I didn't have any machine work done because I listened to my buddies. After having a good machine shop do all the boring and head work, I assembled it myself and it lasted for a very long time. Ever since that event, I only buy cores and rebuild it myself because if it goes bad, there's only one person to blame. ME!

If one takes their time, reads up on what their doing, asks professionals and not some one that "knows" it all, they should be able to put together a nice engine no matter what the size. You then are then able to proudly say...."I built it!"

I too feel as though 300-375HP is a nice figure to shoot for with a driver. It's enough to do a burn out and plenty enough to get in trouble with the law. Very Happy

Let's see what that little 305 can do Roadcaptain.

Jeff....
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:33 pm

Thanks.

And PS.

The 383 needs a rebuild, and the 350 block is just that.
A trip to the machine shop for either is gonna be $1000 give or take for either.

I'd say building either of those would cost a helluva lot more than bolting on a carb, intake and heads on a 40k mile 305.

I'd LOVE it if somebody could show me how a $1500+ 260 or 290 HP GM crate could be less expensive for the same result.

I've talked to a few knowledgeable guys about it. First I get a blank stare. Then some pointing and laughing. After they REALLY THINK about it, they don't seem to able to argue anymore.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by fasrnur on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:22 pm

So true sir. My little 305 only had a very mild cam, an aluminum intake with a quadra-jet and nothing else. It did nicely in a 3000lb S10 and didn't get too bad of mileage either. It liked to be buzzed for some reason, 2800-3000 on the highway. I had a Vega convertor behind it and that might have been one reason it was so much fun. I didn't have headers on it, but wish I had. It probably would have woke it up just a little more.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by pila on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:15 am

Many of you folks don't likely remember a Hot Rod Magazine article on a 305 they hopped up, to get 505 horse power from.
I don't remember the details after all this time, except that they had main bearing problems toward the end of the build up.
So, it's possible to get some fairly good power from one, without going to extremes like the Hot Rod guys did.

I kinda wonder if the Magazine would have that build in their archives ?? If so, it would be interesting to read now !!

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Re: 305 Builds

Post by bigredlaguna on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:31 am

I just rebuilt a 383 that I had just laying around. Reused the pistons and camshaft. The heads were the most worn part- the previous builder just knurled the guides. The crank needed some grinding on the rod journals if I remember right. Not that it matters, but this is the crank's last go because the journals are as small as he will go. But if the crank was beyond spec, that would be that much more money (maybe- grind crank vs new?). The bores just needed a light hone- the crosshatch was still good from the previous build.

About as simple of a rebuild as one can be and the price tag was still 1300 dollars. At this point all I have is a long block. The 383 in the corner may need more than mine did, maybe not, but I think Cap is correct on the money issue by sticking to top end mods with the current running engine and using the potential savings vs a rebuild toward other parts of the vehicle like headers, exhaust piping and potential maintenance issues that may pop up.

While the 383 would guarantee a desired power level, I think the 305 will be able to easily satisfy Cap's goals. Especially if he gets the car to put a smile on his face for less than the cost of a full rebuild or a crate engine.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by fasrnur on Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:42 am

Here's a couple of builds.

http://www.hioutput.com/tech/343hp/343hp.html

http://www.camaros.net/forums/13-performance/15661-325hp-305-simple-bolt-mods.html
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by bracketchev1221 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:20 pm

Just be sure to compare what you have to the articles. Later 305's had better pistons and more compression off the bat. Mid 70's 305's were 8.5-1 compression and some used a small chamber just to achieve that number.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by BBMALIBU on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:37 pm

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:
why on earth does anyone NEED a Hellcat? So they can go half a block really fast?

C'mon.

Lots of people spend a lot of money to build high horsepower engines.
Then they sit  on their a**es and tell everybody how fast their car is.
They have WASTED a bunch of $$ for ego and what they consider bragging rights.

Why does anyone need a Hellcat?

Well.....

Why would anyone NEED to buy a Super Duty, TurboMax, that can tow 10 tanks....F or k500 truck.  
Only to use it for trips to Walmart or picking up the kids from soccer practice.

Why would anyone NEED to buy a $50,000 Ranger bass boat.....only to use it once a year (or the thousand of dollars in fishing gear).

Why would anyone NEED to buy $30,000 Harley Davison motor cycle......just to take on Sunday rides to church.

Why would anyone NEED to buy any water recreational vehicles (jet skis)...only to use them similar to the above mentioned bass boat.

Why would anyone NEED to buy a Summer home...only to use a few days during the Summer.

Why would anyone NEED to build a 4500 sq ft home (not including basement).....
One clown said this too me, only to build one later.

As you see...this list can go on, and on, and on, etc.....

It's not about the NEED.....it's about the WANT.

Tell you what......don't tell me how to spend my hard earned money and I won't tell you how to spend yours.

Sounds fair to me.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by BBMALIBU on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:48 pm

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:Thanks.

And PS.

The 383 needs a rebuild, and the 350 block is just that.
A trip to the machine shop for either is gonna be $1000 give or take for either.

I'd say building either of those would cost a helluva lot more than bolting on a carb, intake and heads on a 40k mile 305.

I'd LOVE it if somebody could show me how a $1500+ 260 or 290 HP GM crate could be less expensive for the same result.

I've talked to a few knowledgeable guys about it. First I get a blank stare. Then some pointing and laughing. After they REALLY THINK about it, they don't seem to able to argue anymore.

Prior to my first post, I believe this is the first time you mentioned that the 383 will require a rebuild.  
I thought it was ready to be installed.

If you opted to go the crate motor route, you don't necessarily have to replace all the items
you listed earlier (unless they need to be replaced).

Is it possible for a $1500.00 crate motor to be installed without replacing the items you previously listed.  
Because, I would suspect that they will not be replaced with the 305 build.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:19 pm

BBMALIBU wrote:
Roadcaptain S3 wrote:
why on earth does anyone NEED a Hellcat? So they can go half a block really fast?

C'mon.

Lots of people spend a lot of money to build high horsepower engines.
Then they sit  on their a**es and tell everybody how fast their car is.
They have WASTED a bunch of $$ for ego and what they consider bragging rights.

Why does anyone need a Hellcat?

Well.....

Why would anyone NEED to buy a Super Duty, TurboMax, that can tow 10 tanks....F or k500 truck.  
Only to use it for trips to Walmart or picking up the kids from soccer practice.

Why would anyone NEED to buy a $50,000 Ranger bass boat.....only to use it once a year (or the thousand of dollars in fishing gear).

Why would anyone NEED to buy $30,000 Harley Davison motor cycle......just to take on Sunday rides to church.

Why would anyone NEED to buy any water recreational vehicles (jet skis)...only to use them similar to the above mentioned bass boat.

Why would anyone NEED to buy a Summer home...only to use a few days during the Summer.

Why would anyone NEED to build a 4500 sq ft home (not including basement).....
One clown said this too me, only to build one later.

As you see...this list can go on, and on, and on, etc.....

It's not about the NEED.....it's about the WANT.

Tell you what......don't tell me how to spend my hard earned money and I won't tell you how to spend yours.

Sounds fair to me.

Funny, I don't recall telling you to do anything.

I was referring to people that build giant engines only for ego purposes. I'd say that encompasses roughly 75% of most hobby car guys.
You want a Hellcat or a summer house? By all means, knock yourself out.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:29 pm

BBMALIBU wrote:
Roadcaptain S3 wrote:Thanks.

And PS.

The 383 needs a rebuild, and the 350 block is just that.
A trip to the machine shop for either is gonna be $1000 give or take for either.

I'd say building either of those would cost a helluva lot more than bolting on a carb, intake and heads on a 40k mile 305.

I'd LOVE it if somebody could show me how a $1500+ 260 or 290 HP GM crate could be less expensive for the same result.

I've talked to a few knowledgeable guys about it. First I get a blank stare. Then some pointing and laughing. After they REALLY THINK about it, they don't seem to able to argue anymore.

Prior to my first post, I believe this is the first time you mentioned that the 383 will require a rebuild.  
I thought it was ready to be installed.

If you opted to go the crate motor route, you don't necessarily have to replace all the items
you listed earlier (unless they need to be replaced).

Is it possible for a $1500.00 crate motor to be installed without replacing the items you previously listed.  
Because, I would suspect that they will not be replaced with the 305 build.

Hey, feel free to install a crate engine and use a 30 year old water pump. It's your engine and your warranty.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by BBMALIBU on Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:49 am

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:
I was referring to people that build giant engines only for ego purposes.
I'd say that encompasses roughly 75% of most hobby car guys.

How did you come to the conclusion that "hobby car guys who build giant engines" are doing it for "ego purposes" only?

Regarding your conclusion... "it encompasses roughly 75% of most hobby car guys".....sounds to me like you insulted quite a few G3GM members.....Thank you.

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:
Hey, feel free to install a crate engine and use a 30 year old water pump. It's your engine and your warranty.

So with hopping up the 305......you were not going to replace a 30 year old water pump?

fasrnur wrote:Very well said Roadcaptain, very well said.

And thank you too.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by BBMALIBU on Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:52 am

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:
And their big shiny new engine would probably get blown away buy a kid in a V6 Mustang.

When you are all done hopping up the 305 from a 17 second cruiser to a 16 second screaming sleeper.....

Add your name to this kids list.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by rosco77 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:47 pm

I'm not getting involved with the pissing match going on. Just wanted to say if you want to build a 305, then do it. If I didn't get such a good deal on the 350 block I'm building, I would be rebuilding my 305. Back when I drove this car 20 plus years ago, the 305 in it did well, but needed more. I had a 85 C10 with a 305 and th350. We rebuilt that 305 and I put an Edelbrock intake and a 350 cam (I knew nothing about cams then), but it really woke that little motor up. Not sure how much power it made, never had it dynoed, but it would bark the tires and pull 16mpgs in that square body truck.
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by fasrnur on Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:41 pm

BBMALIBU and Roadcaptain I like your posts and thank both oof you and everyone else here for the great posts.

Jeff.....
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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Limey SE on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:05 pm

Yes Lets Please keep Everything Kosher Wait I am not Jewish Dang yu Bobby and BBmali got me thinking I am Jewish now

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Re: 305 Builds

Post by Roadcaptain S3 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:31 am

It's cool A. Notice I quit this thread on Thurs.

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Re: 305 Builds

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