First fire problem

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Re: First fire problem

Post by Joe73 on Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:45 am

If your using the same distributor that was in the car before then there shouldnt be an issue.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by thatfnthing on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:46 am

bigredlaguna wrote:Also make sure the gauge is large enough to carry the load without resistance.

Which means 16ga minimum, preferably 14ga.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by Podor on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:59 pm

If it was originally a points type distributor, it will still run even with the resistor setup.

Following the thread, I'm a bit confused about whether there is spark at the plug or not. If there isn't any spark and you're running a tach, unplug it from the distributor just in case the wire or tach are grounded. It sounds like everything else has been replaced.

Check to see if it will run with carb cleaner. That will eliminate the ignition side and mechanical issues.

It sounds like your cam is good. 1 and 6 are opposite in the firing order. So when one is on the compression stroke the other is on he exhaust stroke.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:20 pm

So if I am at #1 TDC compression and both valves are closed. What should the valves on #6 be?
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:49 pm

Podor wrote:If it was originally a points type distributor, it will still run even with the resistor setup.

Following the thread, I'm a bit confused about whether there is spark at the plug or not. If there isn't any spark and you're running a tach, unplug it from the distributor just in case the wire or tach are grounded. It sounds like everything else has been replaced.

Check to see if it will run with carb cleaner. That will eliminate the ignition side and mechanical issues.

It sounds like your cam is good. 1 and 6 are opposite in the firing order. So when one is on the compression stroke the other is on he exhaust stroke.

I tried starting fluid and didn't even get a burp or anything just kept cranking no fire
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Re: First fire problem

Post by Podor on Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:56 pm

JF74chevelle wrote:So if I am at #1 TDC compression and both valves are closed. What should the valves on #6 be?

TDC compression #1 should be TDC exhaust #6, so the exhaust valve should be just closing and intake valve starting to open. Really, if you have the timing marks lined up, you should be good. You could possibly be off by a tooth, but it would act like it would fire at that point.

3 things make an engine run, air/fuel, compression and spark. If it doesn't fire on starting fluid, we are down to spark and compression. Just to make sure, does the choke close?

If you have spark at the plug, pull the cap and see if the rotor is pointing to The wire going to #1 at TDC compression. The rotor turns clockwise. You may need to index the wires or move the distributor position if everything doesn't line up.

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/firing-order-chevy-sb-bb.html?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2vJX0lLLWAhVLzVQKHSlcD34Q9QEIDjAA

If you have spark and the wires are correct, check compression. Just because it's new doesn't mean there isn't an issue. I think someone mentioned rocker arm adjustment.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:39 pm

I have all the rocker arms backed off to where they cannot be stuck open. Yes the choke closes
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:34 am

Podor wrote:If it was originally a points type distributor, it will still run even with the resistor setup.

Not for very long.

I think you should pursue the ignition first. Get the module checked out or even just get a new one. This is usually the source of ignition problems for an HEI. Nothing happening even with starting fluid means no spark. Low or no compression wouldn't matter because you still have a combustible mix for the plug to light and something would definitely happen if the spark was there.

Make sure the positive wire is good. Make sure the ground strap is connected between the engine and body.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:47 am

I put in a different distributor, sprayed a little starting fluid in th carb and got a POP out of the muffler. Then smoke and gas squitering out the carb.

I'm so lost trying to get this thing fired up.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:21 am

Then it has to be timing. If it still pops and such, it has to be the timing. I've had the wires lined up almost a quarter turn off on the distributor before. Try moving the wires over one spot on the distributor.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:28 am

bigredlaguna wrote:Then it has to be timing. If it still pops and such, it has to be the timing. I've had the wires lined up almost a quarter turn off on the distributor before. Try moving the wires over one spot on the distributor.

Clockwise or counterclockwise?

Or try both ways?
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:42 am

Move the wires as if you are advancing the distributor. Counterclockwise. If you have enough slack in the wires, just crank the distributor clockwise until something better happens. If you have to turn it 1/4 turn or more, just move the wires so the vacuum advance isn't at some crazy angle.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:48 am

I always print out a picture of the firing order and the cylinder numbers when it has been a while since doing this stuff for myself. Helps me keep from doing a rookie mistake.

Just to make sure, you have a standard firing order camshaft, correct? There are 4-7 swap cams, but I don't think it would cause this type of situation.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:54 am

Which I just did. Embarassed

I got the directions turned around. You turn the distributor counter clockwise to advance, so if you need to move the wires one position, go clockwise. I'm not even working on the car and I'm getting myself flustered, lol
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Re: First fire problem

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:40 am

Since this is a first fire on a new cam, another way to find out where the timing is really at is this.

Get the engine to TDC and mark the base plate of the distributor where you have the #1 wire. Remove the cap and see where the rotor is actually pointing.

If you have enough slack in the wires, you can simply re-wire the cap with #1 on the post closest to where the rotor is, otherwise you will have to remove the distributor and re-orient the oil pump shaft.

This might be where things got messed up. As you might know, the oil pump shaft is like a straight blade screwdriver, and engagement with the distributor is either 0 or 180 out.

The line the flats make is the same direction as the rotor will be. So sometimes what happens is if you want the rotor to point a certain direction, you line up the oil pump shaft with that direction. The problem is that the distributor engages it before it is seated on the manifold, so it turns about two or three positions. This ends up making you 90 or 270 on the initial timing.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:01 am

bigredlaguna wrote:Since this is a first fire on a new cam, another way to find out where the timing is really at is this.

Get the engine to TDC and mark the base plate of the distributor where you have the #1 wire. Remove the cap and see where the rotor is actually pointing.

If you have enough slack in the wires, you can simply re-wire the cap with #1 on the post closest to where the rotor is, otherwise you will have to remove the distributor and re-orient the oil pump shaft.

This might be where things got messed up. As you might know, the oil pump shaft is like a straight blade screwdriver, and engagement with the distributor is either 0 or 180 out.

The line the flats make is the same direction as the rotor will be. So sometimes what happens is if you want the rotor to point a certain direction, you line up the oil pump shaft with that direction. The problem is that the distributor engages it before it is seated on the manifold, so it turns about two or three positions. This ends up making you 90 or 270 on the initial timing.

Okay I'll check this out thank you.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:02 am

https://youtu.be/uFRE5tjdrjc


This is a video of trying to fire it up
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Re: First fire problem

Post by clanceman427 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:54 pm

how is the battery doing? is it getting run down? maybe charge it or make sure it's healthy. Also, what is the health of the coil?
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:00 pm

The battery if fully charged and the distributor in that video is brand new
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Re: First fire problem

Post by 73ss on Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:12 pm

http://www.corvette-restoration.com/resources/technical_papers/Distributor_Installation.pdf

This may help you, Basically what every one else on here is saying here but in a step by step format. This is for points but hei installs the same way.

Also, You will quickly find in this hobby brand new don't mean squat anymore. We have probably all been screwed over on brand new parts.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by clanceman427 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:34 pm

you said earlier that the timing light doesn't flash when cranking it over. That means ignition system has problems. Try hooking up the timing light again and see if it flashes while you crank it over like in your video.

Side note: looks like you don't have your water pump and fan hooked up yet. I'd get that all buttoned-up before firing the motor, that way you can bring rpm's up immediately and break in the cam properly. Also, makes me think-is your alternator belt on? Don't know if that matters for initial start up but again have everything all set up and installed before trying to fire it.
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:32 pm

Well I don't know if I'm going to have to open up the timing chain cover to take a look at the cam and where the dots are all lined up
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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:41 pm

clanceman427 wrote:you said earlier that the timing light doesn't flash when cranking it over.  That means ignition system has problems.  Try hooking up the timing light again and see if it flashes while you crank it over like in your video.

Side note:  looks like you don't have your water pump and fan hooked up yet.  I'd get that all buttoned-up before firing the motor, that way you can bring rpm's up immediately and break in the cam properly.  Also, makes me think-is your alternator belt on?  Don't know if that matters for initial start up but again have everything all set up and installed before trying to fire it.

I haven't hooked up the timing light on the new dizzy. I'll try that and I'll do a compression test
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Re: First fire problem

Post by Podor on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:47 pm

JF74chevelle wrote:Well I don't know if I'm going to have to open up the timing chain cover to take a look at the cam and where the dots are all lined up

If you think there's an issue with the cam, I would suggest buying a cheap compression tester if your psi readings are at least 120 psi and consistent, it should fire. I don't think that's your issue. It cranks like it has compression. Pulling the cover is a pain vs pulling the plugs and buying a compression tester.

I'm still unclear. Do you have spark?

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Re: First fire problem

Post by JF74chevelle on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Last time I check it was an orange spark not blue with the old distributor
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Re: First fire problem

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