Trouble In HAZARD County!!

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Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Upon investigation of my elco jumping time on the distributor, this is what I found![img][/img][img][/img][img][/img] I purchased a new timing chain and when I tried to install it I learned the crankshaft was damaged also. Because this is my daily driver and I have no backup I welded the crank gear to the crankshaft. I have no intentions of rebuilding this engine. I've got a few things to gather then I will swap it out to a 454.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by 77mali on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:55 pm

Ugh! Scary.

How does something like that happen?
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:02 pm

All I can assume is fatigue. The car was running fine, then just started missing and running poorly, and then it wouldn't start. All in a matter of few minutes, I just returned home from work. I was getting fire and fuel, then I pulled the dizzy cap and saw the dizzy wasn't spinning when cranking the engine.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:04 pm

If you look at the second pic, at about the center of the pic, next to the fan belt. You can see where the gear shot into the timing cover and sheared off the bolt holding it on, and cracked the timing cover.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by fishhead on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:49 pm

Geeeez...sorry to see the wreckage.Glad you got it patched up though.

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by pila on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:02 pm

I haven't seen one of those fail, but I suppose anything can fail at some point. I'm not fond of the noisy gears drives myself...

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by fishhead on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:16 pm

I think I remember reading somewhere years ago (maybe David Vizard?) an engine builder preferred not to use the geardrive because of vibration/harmonics passed through the crankshaft and also the tiny little metal fragments that are produced by those gears over millions of revolutions.Maybe I just dreamed it,I've read so much literature on engines over the years I can't remember half of it. scratch

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by fishhead on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:18 pm

I think I remember reading somewhere years ago (maybe David Vizard?) an engine builder preferred not to use the geardrive because of vibration/harmonics passed through the crankshaft and also the tiny little metal fragments that are produced by those gears over millions of revolutions.Maybe I just dreamed it,I've read so much literature on engines over the years I can't remember half of it. scratch

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:09 pm

Well, after 3 weeks of trying to figure something out, here's the update! The engine that tossed the gear drive developed a rod knock. Metal shavings had already circulated thru the oil system by the time I discovered the damage. A friend of mine gave me a complete 350 from his truck( now I know why)! After cleaning up the motor and inspecting all that I could, I installed into my elco. Within 2 mins. of running I realized why it was FREE. It has a rod knock also. I don't have money for a complete rebuild! I do however have a short block 454 with unknown history. Don't know what to do anymore.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by pila on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:21 pm

A word to the wise......never install an unknown engine without at least pulling a few bearing caps to get a look at the crank, plus a general inspection of the rest of the engine.
Lots of people have installed bad engines.

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by 77mali on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:25 pm

I would consider buying a used engine off craigslist or some local salvage place if funds are limited. I would however only do this if you can hear/see it running. If you have the time/patience you may even find one that is still in a car that someone wants to sell because they are going with a different motor for their project or hot-rod. Happens here locally all the time. I used to search by entering something like "SBC 350", BBC 454 or "Chevy 350", etc. I've seen 305's & 350's locally here in the past for well under $1000 in such a scenario.

Check with some local rebuild shops also they may be able to help you find something or suggest some good yards to call.

Good luck.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:31 pm

I rode my Harley to a shop in Phx. called Phoenix engines. He claims to have and sell 300 horse 350 for 599.99. Upon talking to the guy, he doesn't machine the parts, he installs new bearings and rings and throws in a 300 horse cam. The same engine with new parts and machining is 1000.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by 77mali on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:40 pm

A clean/machined/balanced crank in a rebuild is a must- otherwise you'll just be back to square one again. My engine builder said mine needed to be polished (machined). Ended up trading for one that was ready to go at his shop to save time. I thought it looked pretty good but he builds all types of stuff and said it wasn't the worst he'd seen but it was bad enough that he wouldn't reuse it as is.

http://s1049.beta.photobucket.com/user/77mali/library/Engine%20and%20Engine%20Bay
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by pila on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:45 pm

Crank grinding here is about 75 bucks now, and money well spent. I suppose it's much more i some places.

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by 77mali on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:53 pm

pila wrote:Crank grinding here is about 75 bucks now, and money well spent. I suppose it's much more i some places.

It was $300 extra for the new polished crank. My old one became a "core". There are not many "reputable" builder in my area- less than a handful and it's a dying business in our throw away society. My engines bottom end is balanced and blueprinted. There are probably quite a few quality builders & machinists in Michigan.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:38 am

I've been contemplating using my big block, but again, I just don't have alot of money. I need a cam, complete gasket set, and a timing set. I figure thats about 3-400 already. Finding a decent place to do the work is hard enough, worse when the budget is very low. I'm assuming new bearings and rings with machining will put me over a grand. I dont want to run the big block, but I'm afraid to buy a used motor and have the same thing happen again. All that time and effort and still a bad motor. I've seen ads for running engines that I'll have to remove, but maybe I'm too cautious.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by dragons_lair59 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 am

try bartering with that shop see if you could trade the 2 motors as cores for a good one cause in the long run both of ya would be happy your up and running and he can basically double his money

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:16 pm

I like that suggestion I definately ask him about it. Meanwhile I'm gonna look into doing a bearing and rering kit on the 454, and see what it would cost to have someone polish the crank, and hone the cylinders.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by dragons_lair59 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:45 pm

or even see if he will swap the bad blocks for the work and parts on the bbc

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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:59 am

I found a shop here in Phx. to do the work on my 454. Upon inspecting, I need the crank turned down, block needs to be decked, honed, and bored out. With parts, machining, and installing cam bearings, and R&R the pistons and rods, I will be able to walk away for less than 1500.00. Parts include all gaskets,bearings,rings, cam, oil pump,timing set, freeze plugs and etc. for a short block. I have a set of 049's heads ready to run. Should be done in 2 weeks! Cam will be an Isky 262 adv. duration, as I needed to be able to tow and drive daily. I have 2 intakes and 2 carbs, to select from. I'm fighting the urge to use my victor jr. manifold and 750 mech. sec. carb.( it just looks so much better than the edelbrock 600 and wieand action plus manifold). I let my son talk me out of my hood and street scoop, so I'll be swapping hoods with him.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Pontichev327 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:19 am

Really sounds good! I have got to see it when your done, man! Are you coming to any events in April?
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

Post by Bruisr on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:10 pm

I don't think the car will be ready by then, I'm currently using my Harley and alternating with my sons elco for work and daily trips to town and whatnot. However I'd like to do more riding on my Harley so its possible. My father and I (he owns a 66 chevelle with a dual carb. cross ram 383, really nasty quick) I'll see if he will want to go.
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Re: Trouble In HAZARD County!!

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