Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:19 pm

Bruisr wrote:Yes,  also I'm using a worked set of 049 heads. I've heard and read they have 122 cc's chambers and others claim 113 cc chambers.  So I thought, using a steel shim head gasket with a compressed thickness of .019 could help if the chambers actually are 122 cc's.  When I had the block and pistons and crank at the machine shop, I had choose to do a basic rebuild.  Now, I want to increase the compression ratio, install a bigger cam.  I know the engine work is crap if the gears and stall aren't matched to the power band, but I will change the rear gear ratio and already have a 3500 stall convertor.  So far I have a 750 double pumper, Victor Jr. intake, MSD ignition.  I have some of the items needed for the rear suspension, and will be upgrading the suspension as money allows.    The chevelle has been put on a diet.  Gutted front and rear bumpers, engine bay deleted of a/c, heater, and other items not needed.  Battery is relocated to the trunk, and the interior is void of anything not wanted.  
  I used a 454 with the same 049 heads, 280 duration comp. cam, 3500 stall, and 4.10 gears with the carb. and intake stated above and loved the way the engine and car responded together.  But for some reason, the machine shop is telling me this setup wont work.  It worked great before it flattened a lobe on the cam and caused a rod bearing to spin.    The pistons are new replacements but look just like the ones they replaced.   I didn't measure the deck height, but I'm not understanding what this guys deal is?   Is he being honest or trying to get more money?
No, he is right, it will be a low compression engine.  It will work, but I see what he is saying, if he is saying that it won't be as good as it can be.  With those pistons figuring a 118cc head, .039 gasket and .020 in the hole on the piston and you are 8:1.  If you zero deck it and go with a shim gasket you could squeeze almost 8.5:1.  Now if you can get to 9.5:1 or just under 10, it will wake that engine up a ton.  My 408(396) with 10.5-1 compression and 781 heads made 500 hp and ran 11.50's in a 71 camaro.  A 454 can easily hit that in the high 9's compression and the 049 head.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by BlackChevelleSS on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:33 pm

Forged pistons are not too expensive, I just bought a set of 18cc dome forged pistons from probe for $380 on ebay.
Im also running a 101cc chamber head. so my compression will be around 11:1 with them.

OR you can find a set of closed chamber heads, like 396-427 heads fairly cheap and rebuild them.

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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by Bruisr on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:54 pm

I understand using a closed chamber head will make a lot of difference, but I already have a bit of money into the 049's. Bigger valves, bowl work and porting. Changing heads would be as long ways away, considering cost to purchase and to rebuild. I've been tossing the idea of better pistons, and really think that is the way to go. Purchasing a set is another story. I don't have a lot of measuring devices, so what size dome should I be looking for? Using the 049 heads, .039 head gasket, keeping the compression between 10.5- 10? I will not use any NOS or power adders so what about the hyper pistons? (don't know how to spell the Keith Black hyper---- pistons). They seem to be a little cheaper than forged, without forged rods or crank, why run forged pistons?
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by pila on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:26 pm

I haven't been into drag racing since the late 60s. Back then, two friends and I fielded a '55 Chevy 2-door sedan, with 327 that we bought new from the local dealer. We went with JE pistons, Mickey Thompson aluminum rods, and Isky cam, a Mallory mini-magneto, and a Mickey Thompson cross-ram 2X4 intake with two Carter AFB carbs. We got into the 12s with it, after the learning curve. Good part about that car, was that we could swap rear end gears in about 20 minutes. We started with a 4.89, and went as high as a 6.14. We went through the traps as high as 8500 RPMs with the 327. We ran a Scheifer aluminum flywheel and clutch set-up, and an RC aluminum scatter-shield bell housing.
An air density gauge helped with tuning the carbs back then.
Seems like the ETs these days aren't much improved from back then, even with all the high-tech hardware that's available now.
I like performance, but being street-able is the priority.
A section on here for drag racing seems like it would help folks who are getting into the week-end warrior fun !Very Happy 

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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:53 pm

Bruisr wrote:I understand using a closed chamber head will make a lot of difference, but I already have a bit of money into the 049's. Bigger valves, bowl work and porting.  Changing heads would be as long ways away, considering cost to purchase and to rebuild.  I've been tossing the idea of better pistons, and really think that is the way to go.  Purchasing a set is another story.   I don't have a lot of measuring devices, so what size dome should I be looking for?  Using the 049 heads, .039 head gasket, keeping the compression between 10.5- 10?  I will not use any NOS or power adders so what about the hyper pistons? (don't know how to spell the Keith Black hyper---- pistons).  They seem to be a little cheaper than forged, without forged rods or crank, why run forged pistons?
All Mk IV (pre 1990) stock big block chevy rods are forged steel.  There are 3/8 rod bolt and 7/16 rod bolt connecting rods.  Hopefully you have the 7/16.  The crank may be cast.  That is not an issue, it will still be reliable if machined correctly and the assembly is balanced.  I ran a cast 396 crank in the 408 at 7000 rpm.  With steel heads, the 049 and 781 are the best oval port open chamber heads you can get.  There may be a third number but I cant remember it right now.  On a steel head motor, I would try to keep the compression at 10 or less.  Being from a racing background, I am not a fan of the hyper pistons.  I like to use forged pistons.  Many people have used them in applications like yours with success.  If it was me, and budget was an issue I would use a speed pro forged piston.  If budget can afford, I would use an SRP piston from JE. Off the top of my head in an open chamber head either a speed pro 2399 or a 2465 will get you in the ball park.  I think they will get you compression between low 9's with the 2399, or 10 with the 2465. Try a compression ratio calculator with the gasket and stuff you want to use and see where they fall.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by BlackChevelleSS on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:06 am

Look into the forged probe pistons, they are cheaper than the SRPs and close to the same price as the Speed Pros. They are american made and very very nice pieces for the price. My KB hyper pistons are the same price for the set as the probes I just ordered to replace them.

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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:30 am

BlackChevelleSS wrote:Look into the forged probe pistons, they are cheaper than the SRPs and close to the same price as the Speed Pros. They are american made and very very nice pieces for the price. My KB hyper pistons are the same price for the set as the probes I just ordered to replace them.
Are those the FPS pistons? I have heard about them but don't know much about them. But I think they are comparable to the SRP pistons as far as alloy make up. If they are cheaper then great, go for it.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:25 am

So what would be the best steel head for a sb 350? Performance daily driver! Also what would be the best HP/TQ numbers for a nice sport daily driver?
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:37 pm

driveit wrote:So what would be the best steel head for a sb 350? Performance daily driver!  Also what would be the best HP/TQ numbers for a nice sport daily driver?

Anyone?
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:49 pm

Honestly I think if you can make 350-400 hp the car is plenty fast. It will smoke the tires with the right gear and converter. Well for the heads, basically any small chamber head in about 180 or less cc intake runners. The vortecs are good, but I think they are limited in valve lift without modifications. Dart has an Iron eagle head in 165 and 180, World makes the S/R torquer heads in like 170 range. If you are at 76 cc now and go down to 64 it will raise compression and make power. Post up what your goals are.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by WyldeBill66 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:50 pm

Raptor Engines has steel heads that are 305 castings that have been reworked with 2.02/1.60 valves and ported for $399 a set complete. That's what I'm looking at for my 350. Their website is raptorengines.com. 12,000 mile warranty too. I think they are in Oregon.

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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:52 pm

I thought I posted something about this before. Didn't want you to think I ignored you.  Very Happy 

http://www.g3gm.com/t7784-daily-driver-small-block-chevy-heads
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:02 pm

Thanks everyone. I do want to be able to just hop in this thing an go anytime anywhere. I just don't want to bog down. I want know when I step on that gas that I have something under the hood that's bigger than a 4 banger.

I don't have a lot of knowledge on engines and tuning so I want to be able to bolt it together and go with little or no maintenance.

I did want to lighten the car as much as possible. I was leaning toward aluminum heads, but the 399 price on those mentioned above have gotten me thinking.

I was thinking of getting a thumper cam, but don't have a stall.

Here is my current config.

74 - 350 - stock.
Edelbrok 600 carb.
Weiand single plane intake.
Unknown long tube headers.
Accell HEI Supercoil
350 tranny
Stock gears.? I think it is like a 2.88 or something.
No idea what the heads are. They engine came out of a 74 3/4 ton pickup.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:23 pm

Pull a valve cover and get the casting number off the heads. I would stay away from the thumper cams. They are good for sound but not so much performance. I would go with a comp xe cam or a lunati voodoo.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by Joe73 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:16 pm

Bracketchev has it right.  Forget the thumper and go with his suggestions.  Also dump the single plane and grab a dual plane and also try it with a spacer. Best bang for the buck would be the gears. Really livens up the car.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:49 pm

I will try and do that this weekend if I have time. Are there any good stock heads to look for as far as the casting numbers?
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Joe73 wrote:Bracketchev has it right.  Forget the thumper and go with his suggestions.  Also dump the single plane and grab a dual plane and also try it with a spacer.  Best bang for the buck would be the gears.  Really livens up the car.

Iv'e got a spacer on it now wit the single plane. I had a new edelbrock performer intake which is a single plane originally. I got this one from a friend and decided to try it out. While I had my performer off someone broke in and stole it and all of my tools. So I have been stuck with this one. I have been wondering if I would be better off with a stock intake.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:58 pm

A performer is a dual plane. I like the performer eps for a semi stock engine and a performer rpm for a street/strip setup. I use the performer rpm non air gap version on my 355 with a 1" 4 hole spacer on it.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:30 pm

Mine is a 1" open spacer. Do you think a stock intake would be better than the weiand single plane that I have?
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by dynchel on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:37 pm

I've always been taught single plane intakes are for top end (drag racing), and sacrifice low end torque, where as dual planes are for all around performance. I have a performer rpm.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by dynchel on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:56 pm

driveit wrote:I will try and do that this weekend if I have time. Are there any good stock heads to look for as far as the casting numbers?
if you choose the 305 head route, #416 is what you want. Produced from '80 to '85 these are the h/o castings. Mine came from a '84 Monte Carlo spec's are 58 cc combestion chamber, 1.88 valves. Not ideal but a bolt on upgrade that will boost your compression and really wake up a weak motor. Now this isn't the beat setup for all out drag racing (as the small valves run out of steam on the high end) but with my 373 gears the car runs like a raped ape. BTW #416 is the last three numbers of the part number, that is found under the valve cover. On a sludged up motor the #'s will be hard to find.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by 77mali on Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:49 am

I know that lots of folks do this head swap but I had 305 heads on my 350 when I 1st got the Malibu and my block was damaged & I think that was why. Be careful, and make sure you're head gasket will handle the higher compression ratio so as not to damage the block surface.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by driveit on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:05 pm

I just checked my heads this weekend and they are 882's. I will be on the look out for a set of those 416's.
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by oldstofty on Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:27 pm

Im heavy into drag racing ill have to take pictures of what i just did to the doors for weight savings. swiss cheesed and cut the crash bar out. last year my car went the best of 12.30 at 106 1.68 60ft and 7.75 1/8
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Re: Are there any drag racers here and is a performance forum a good idea?

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:44 pm

oldstofty wrote:Im heavy into drag racing ill have to take pictures of what i just did to the doors for weight savings. swiss cheesed and cut the crash bar out. last year my car went the best of 12.30 at 106 1.68 60ft and 7.75 1/8

Feel free to start as many topics as you want.
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