Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:43 pm

Doesn't the parts car have the braces?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:02 pm

Didn't come with any.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by switchbiker on Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:34 pm

Wouldn't be too hard to make a pair. When I make mine I'll make you a set if you like them. Ill sell them at cost + shipping even.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:10 am

I have been thinking of having them chromed. Ever seen any chromed before?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:56 am

driveit wrote:I have been thinking of having them chromed.  Ever seen any chromed before?
They look cool chromed, but have you ever priced having something chromed?  $$$  Mine are black powder coat.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by thatfnthing on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:38 am

dynchel wrote:
driveit wrote:I have been thinking of having them chromed.  Ever seen any chromed before?
They look cool chromed, but have you ever priced having something chromed?  $$$  Mine are black powder coat.

Ditto. I sanded mine and painted them with Rustoleum black texture paint.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:56 am

Everything takes money... Gotta get me one of them money trees.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:33 am

Here is some more daydreaming and planning. I want my car to be very safe. My main goal for the car is to be driven. I want it to be a sporty daily driver. I am not worried about being the fastest guy at the track, however it would be awesome to claim those bragging rights. It sounds to me that it would be best to Upgrade my suspension as planned then move on to lightening other areas where possible. E85 conversion is for the birds for the time being.

I know I have posted this before, but here is my setup as of right now.

355 ci. around 350hp or so maybe a few more with the headers and such.
273 rear gear and Jegs 450hp rated 350 turbo and custom ProTorq Stall Converter.

Everything replaced under front end excluding what needed to be pressed out or pressed in. All HD factory replacement parts.

New Idler arm
New Inner/Outter tie rod ends
New Centerlink
Belltec HD front springs stock height
Gabriel Ultra HD shocks.
CPP 74 Camaro 2" drop spindle.
New Cardone Stock replacement caliper.
New rubber lines.
Assuming original rotors, steering box, rag joint.
Stock sway bay.

In rear everything is stock excluding:
Belltec 1" lowering springs.
Gabriel Ultra HD shocks.
No sway bar.
Newly rebuilt Drum Brakes.

The car handles 10 times better than it used to, but its not where I want it to be. The plan for the future as money and time allows is as follows:
Get a rear sway bar
Upgrade to coil overs on all four corners.
Do a disc conversion on the rear.
Upgrade to drilled and slotted rotors on all four corners.
Get adjustable upper and boxed rear lower control arms.
Get wide 18" tires and wheels with a lower profile tire for less tire roll in the corners.

I think I will be much happier when I get to this point. I have also been corresponding with Ron Sutton who is a member on the Pro-Touring forum. He is an expert in aerodynamcs, chassis, suspension and general racecar building from what I understand. I have taken some information from a thread he has about aerodynamics. His thread was geared more toward traction, downforce and shaving time. I have kind of re-purposed it and turned it around for fuel savings and making the car more aerodynamic. I am thinking of doing a full lightweight belly pan. Adding an adjustable front splitter, rear diffuser and nascar style adjustable rear spoiler.

I will be going with a fiberglass hood and decklid. I plan to also get or make some FG bumpers, but will brace them from behind. If I do this I want to make sure that it will be a weight saving mod or the stock steelies will stay. (narrowed and tucked) Lighter seats and other interior materials where possible. Aluminum block LS down the road and 6 speed tranny. Aluminum wheels.

All of this in the name of fuel economy. I am planning all of this out now and learning as much as I can. My budget is null currently so I am learning and sourcing parts as well as people that I will need for help when the time comes.

My current goal is 25+ mpg. Think I will get there? Got any more tips for me? Think I can get it down to around 2000lbs?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:44 am

If you separate the bumper from the crash brace (the black part bolted to the inside if the chrome part) there is a lot of fat that can be trimmed out while still having a bumper that will have some impact resistance.  This is free, should fit your budget nicely.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:49 am


Maybe a little hard to see but the holes are right under the bumper mount, the boxed center is gone.  Also switching to a '76/'77 grille shaves about 13 pounds off the nose (original potmetal one is 16 lbs)
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:50 am


More free weight saving.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:00 pm

I like these. I think I have all of these documented on my drive. I have a section of things to do. This is one! Definitely want to drop some weight on this. I have already drop 47lbs off the car. Took a whole lot of sweat and walked a lot of miles to do it too. lol I plan to loose about a 100 more so that will help too, I guess...
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:11 pm


I like the look of the '76 grille, the weight is a bonus.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by Dinomyte on Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:31 pm

You wanted to see chromed braces.  Here you go.  This is my engine.  I got these and a couple of other little things chromed for $50CDN.



This winter I think the hood latch and the hinges get the treatment.  These guys are local here in London, and do a lot of plating for the plumbing industry, I liked the chrome because it doesn't scratch like paint can.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:32 pm

It does look nice.  I don't know of any chrome shops locally.  I will have to check around.

I like that grille too Dynchel. Currently all I have is the 74 and a 75, but the 75 has a hole in it. I plan on a custom grille later on that should be very light weight. Mostly plastic.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by Dinomyte on Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:12 pm

The guys at the local Car Quest were the ones that turned me on the Superior Metal Finishing. They are a little mom and pop shop.

http://www.superior-metal-finishing.com/

Ask around.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:27 pm

Will do. Thanks.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by dynchel on Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:31 pm

At my first house (circa 2000) there was a guy that lived behind me that worked at a chrome shop.  He would take small pieces and do them off the books for cheap.  However I got  what i paid for, as there was no prep involved, they went right to chrome, pits and all.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by Dinomyte on Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:07 pm

I guess I got a good thing here. They look perfect and the guy who runs the place said if I wasn't happy they'd do them again and again till it was perfect.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:38 pm

You don't find places like that anymore do ya?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:44 pm

So still thinking about aerodynamics and such. I have been doing some research and was thinking about how to setup some sort of makeshift wind tunnel. I have saw a few small scales designs for school projects, but nothing like what I was thinking. I did see a European guy who was using smoke bombs on a stick with a fan in his garage. He seemed to be making progress with his method though it is very crude. I also read an an old stockcar article where they used to tape yarn onto the car and take photo or video of it as it drives under different conditions to see how it performs.

This gave me an idea. I happened to think what if you took a ribbon or string on a long stick and held it out over the car infront of a powerful fan. Would you get the same result?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:56 pm

I just sent an email to the wind tunnel experts with Nasa to see what they had to say about the matter. They may laugh me out of their office. lol
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by Dinomyte on Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:50 pm

Driveit - your best bet is the smoke bomb on a stick. You just need to find a place where there won't be any wind other than what you want. This is a method used when looking at specific details of air travel around a body or in this case a car.

Secondly if you want to improve aerodynamics, start with the easy stuff.

1. close the windows, (no I'm not kidding) your car was designed with the windows up.

2. start making things smoother, like the pockets for the head lights, cover them with a plastic like lexan. I"m inclined to say a brick is more aerodynamic than a cup, as there is less turbulence around the rim of it.

3. remove stuff that adds to the surface area of the car, body side molding, mirrors if yours aren't bullet shaped, replace them with the likes, the emblem on the nose,

4. your spoiler, tho it looks cool, it may provide more drag than the benefit of the down-force you're looking for. Your car is heavy enough, it likely will stay on the road and be stable without the spoiler even at speed.

5. the whole nose, get a Laguna nose, there's a reason GM designed them for Nascar, not to mention the fabled Road Runner

You can see how quickly things get harder and harder to do.

Check out this web site

http://www.timeattack.co.uk/all-about-aero-the-basics/#sthash.JNj6z7HX.dpbs

It has some very interesting stuff. . . Watch the movie of the Mercedes at Le Mans, it's quite amazing how close to the edge some of these cars are.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:22 pm

Thanks. I am glad to get any advise that I can. I have never even saw a Laguna around here. The only one I have ever saw in person is the one Wally has. That nose will be hard to find especially in my budget. I have always wanted to convert over. I know the 75 and up would be better, but my favs are the 73 and 74. I can't wait to add a few fiberglass parts on this thing and see where I can go with it from there.
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

Post by driveit on Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:48 pm

Nice article. There is a lot of good info there. Most I had already been thinking of. I cant really remove my spoiler now unless someone has a 74 deck lid they want to donate. It has a few holes that weren't there before. I do want to put on a more nascar style spoiler later on temporarily and do some testing with it.

I would like to do the following.

The car will be lowered a bit more for lower COG.
I am hoping to go with coil overs on all four corners down the road as well so this will be adjustable which may help.
Full belly smoothed pan to decrease air drag under the car.
Front splitter as low as possible and still clear a speed bumps to prevent as much air from going under the car as possible.
Rear diffuser to help direct the air under the car and help move it out faster and moor smooth from under the car.
Remove all trim possible on the car to decrease as much drag from the body as possible.
Possibly flush the door handles.
Replace as many panels as possible with fiberglass that can be done safely.
Fill all gaps.
Make custom headlight bucket to block air from getting into that area causing more drag.
Lighten bumper structures and possibly switch to Laguna front end.
Develop a canard that would work in front of the wheels that wouldn't look too out of place.
Add side skirt to prevent air turbulence and more air from entering from the side of the car.
Lighten interior components without sacrificing comfort for my family.
Swap to LS and 5 or 6 Speed.
Aluminum Wheel swap from Steel.

I think if I can cut the weight, smooth out the body and underside of the car, tighten everything else up I should be able to get 25 miles to the gallon easy. At least I think so. What do you guys think?
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Re: Driveit's day dreaming and build thread.

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