Rear frame supports.

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Rear frame supports.

Post by Joe73 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:24 pm

Anyone running rear frame supports on their cars? Especially the big block and stick guys.

I've been looking at these for a long time. Lots of companies make them.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/buick-455-exhaust_2047090.htm
Look at the 15 second mark, right next to each muffler.

They came factory (prior to 73) on big block cars and small blocks with a stick. My buddy has them on both of his big block chevelles, a 70 and 72. Only thing I dont like about the factory ones is that the bolt hole is oval on the front of the brace, so that would still leave alot of play.

I'm thinking of going with these http://www.globalwest.net/ts-37.html

Here's a thread discussing them. http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-73629.html

I like the idea of "triangulating" the rear and also helping out the front of the lower control arm area. Pretty weak around there. I ran aluminum lower control arm bushings years ago and also ran some ladder bars and both beat up that front mount pretty good. Even with everything torqued to specs. Dont want to go through that again with my new frame.

Just throwing it out there for opinions guys?
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:33 pm

Yes they are a good idea to prevent ripping the lower control arm mounts off the frame.  It is a popular upgrade on the 68-72 chevelles as well.  I have seen that mount break off the frame.  The other choice is just weld a plate diagonally off the back of the mount to the frame to support it. But the triangulation is better. When the rear wants to rotate back, the upper bar pulls back on the lower mount with the extra bar. This balances out the forward force of the lower bar to an extent.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by pila on Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:28 pm

Not sure how those are bolted on....I welded gussets on the upper and lower control arm mounts, to tie them to the frame better....but the El Camino has different frame rails than a Chevelle...

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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:55 pm

It just goes from the upper control arm front bolt to the lower control arm front bolt.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by pila on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:20 pm

OK, that makes sense.

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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by 74Malibu383 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:29 pm

Has anyone here ever actually seen a mount rip on a G3?
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by Joe73 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:00 pm

I ripped mine on the right side. Not off the frame but close to the weld. Too many burnouts I guess.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by jerry46765 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:05 pm

I used to bend the right lower control arm mount.
The problem is the mount material is too thin for any real power.

If you are going to build power that will tear up suspension mounts, why not properly box the lower mount?

That bracket looks like an afterthought. It was intended to be used by the matching numbers crowd so they could occasionally beat on a high dollar car without modifying frame mounts and then discard them when they sell at Barrett Jackson.

My mounts were rewelded only and have never broken off. But I have bent them back a few times and no longer run soft tires.

If you are running worn out bushings and the mounting bolts have wear, it will also promote fatigue on the mounts. When I bent mounts the first time, it was because the bushing was bad on one side.


Thanks -
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by 74Malibu383 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:27 am

Crazy... I've never had a problem. Countless burnouts, 590rwhp.... However, I don't want to either.... Any photos of the modifications you either of you have done to correct the situation?
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by pila on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:25 pm

When I had my El Camino frame sand blasted, and looked it over, the mounts for the rear control arms looked kinda light weight for any real torque, and that's why I added some gussets..  The braces appear to be something I can also add. My Caddy engine, although not very high HP, is a torque monster, so I figured I had better do some improvements back there.
 Here is where I started.....the corner of that gusset gets trimmed off after finish welding.....I have more pics someplace, of the upper mounts on the cross frame.  I may take more pics next time it's up on jack stands..

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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by bracketchev1221 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:35 pm

I've never seen it on a 73-77 only a 68-72. I never had any issues with mine in my 70. I was going mid to high 1.4's in 60'.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by 1973 454 MONTE on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:24 pm

i just watched the 68 lemans on overhaulin.when the camera did a birds eyed view of the parts,those frame supports were in the pile of parts.

maybe if Chippy does them,there got to be a reason.GoFast 
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by dynchel on Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:43 pm

Most of the high end suspension kits (global west, Hotchkis, etc) include them so they must do something.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by pila on Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:33 pm

With all the huge power numbers on engines these days, having some extra beef to hold the rear end in place seems like the way to prevent damage back there.  Bent stuff back there wouldn't be very easy to repair......
Boxed control arms can't do it all....

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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by Joe73 on Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:58 pm

Ok, got my Global West rear frame supports in the mail today.  Well made product.  Jegs.com ($140) price matched the Global West Site ($80) and got free shipping.  

First thing I noticed is that the hardware package contained (2) long bolts and (2) short bolts.  Found that odd because I was under the impression that these bolted to the control arm bolts.  When in doubt, read the directions.  Found out that the long bolt is for mounting the support to the FRONT of the lower control.  The other end does not go to the upper control arm bolt on the crossmember.  When the front bolt is in place you just rotate the support up to the crossmember right next to where you have the two holes for the mufflers rear hanger.  About 2 inches to the center over.  They want you to drill a 1/2" hole and use the shorter bolt to mount it up.
 
At first, I didnt like the setup.  But did some research on the net and found that the variations in chassis dimensions made GM use an oval mounting hole on their supports.  I dont like the oval idea.  So I went out and rotated them up into position again to see how it looks.  Well, I find that with it being on the bottom of the crossmember you get a more level "triangulation" for the frame.  And also, the angle is not as severe going to the crossmember so it looks like it would leave even more room for the muffler.  

No pics yet, frame is just sitting on stands til I move my lift over.  Cant wait to get the frame to "roller" again.  
Just some things I found with these global west rear frame supports.  Any help in that back area I think is good.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by 74Malibu383 on Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:03 pm

I'd love to see some pics even if the frame is on stands.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:46 pm

I want time slips!!!!! Get these cars out there!!!!
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by driveit on Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:42 pm

bracketchev1221 wrote:I want time slips!!!!!  Get these cars out there!!!!
Maybe this spring!
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by thatfnthing on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:39 pm

bracketchev1221 wrote:I want time slips!!!!!  Get these cars out there!!!!
You must be someplace sunny and warm. It's winter up here. The only time measured around here now is how long it takes to go from 0 to 60...degrees. Smile
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by dynchel on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:48 pm

I'm in Orlando this week and its like 70°. Very different than the deep freeze of NE Ohio.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by pila on Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:00 pm

Sorry Ray...I'm too old to get time slips anymore !Very Happy 

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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by bracketchev1221 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:28 am

pila wrote:Sorry Ray...I'm too old to get time slips anymore !Very Happy 
You'll be fine, the ride shouldn't take THAT long!!!!!!Very Happy 
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by dynchel on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:32 pm

Joe73 wrote:Ok, got my Global West rear frame supports in the mail today.  Well made product.  Jegs.com ($140) price matched the Global West Site ($80) and got free shipping.  

First thing I noticed is that the hardware package contained (2) long bolts and (2) short bolts.  Found that odd because I was under the impression that these bolted to the control arm bolts.  When in doubt, read the directions.  Found out that the long bolt is for mounting the support to the FRONT of the lower control.  The other end does not go to the upper control arm bolt on the crossmember.  When the front bolt is in place you just rotate the support up to the crossmember right next to where you have the two holes for the mufflers rear hanger.  About 2 inches to the center over.  They want you to drill a 1/2" hole and use the shorter bolt to mount it up.
 
At first, I didnt like the setup.  But did some research on the net and found that the variations in chassis dimensions made GM use an oval mounting hole on their supports.  I dont like the oval idea.  So I went out and rotated them up into position again to see how it looks.  Well, I find that with it being on the bottom of the crossmember you get a more level "triangulation" for the frame.  And also, the angle is not as severe going to the crossmember so it looks like it would leave even more room for the muffler.  

No pics yet, frame is just sitting on stands til I move my lift over.  Cant wait to get the frame to "roller" again.  
Just some things I found with these global west rear frame supports.  Any help in that back area I think is good.
I just received the same global west braces today.  Since I was off and it was 70° I figured wth and installed them.  Two issues I ran into.  First was my hardware was wrong, I was sent four long bolts, not two long and two short.  A quick trip to ace hardware solved that.  The second problem was worse, when the brace was swung up and holes drilled the hole was right next to (the inside of) the mount for the center control arms (if that's what they are called) what I will probably have to do is grind one side of the nut flat so it can be installed.  Other option would be to remove the center arms and drop the bolt down through P.I.T.A.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by Joe73 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:57 pm

I just took a look at mine.  My frame is sitting on my lift with no control arms installed.  So I have plenty of access.
I see what you mean.  My passenger side arm, when swung up to meet the crossmember, lines up along side the vertical brace that the bolt goes through for the upper control arm.  
So just to clarify where I'm talking about.  Passenger side, thin vertical brace thats welded from the bottom of the frame cross brace, going upwards.  It has a hole in it for the upper control arm bolt.  
I end up just inside of that vertical piece.  So yes, I would have to grind the washer a little bit so it lays flat.  But I think the nut will go on.  But I like your idea better of just dropping in the bolt from the top.  Dont think there will be a problem then.
Another thing I noticed, again on the same passenger side, is that when I swing the brace up it just touches my "E" brake mounting bracket.  So much so that it moves the brace outwards about a 1/16" to 1/8".  Not a big deal.  I'd just touch that with the grinder quickly.  

So yes, I see what you mean.  Is your issue also on the passenger side?

Wonder why they just didnt make them bolt onto the nut for the upper control arm and put an adjustment nut in the center of the brace for fine tuning.
Either way, I think these arms will be very beneficial in our cars.  Especially since I crack a control arm perch once already.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

Post by dynchel on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:37 pm

I don't have a problem with the e brake bracket, and yes both arms are fighting for the same space on the cross member. I will probably try grinding the side of the nuts flat first since its a lot easier.
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Re: Rear frame supports.

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