Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

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Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:41 pm

Been looking for one for some time now and a guy has one he was going to sell me that he said came out 0f a n 84 monte with the 4.3 v6. I know they came in the ss with the 305 but don't know if internally there's any diff with the one that came in v6. (weaker maybe?) any help would be great. Looking to get it today if it looks good.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:59 pm

155-862chf1956 is the tag code
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by dynchel on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:42 pm

I heard of people getting a trans out of a astro van and using it behind a V8, idk any specifics though.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by 77mali on Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:31 pm

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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by jerry46765 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:11 pm

From the Hemmings article:

Your engine size should be a consideration; many muscle-car enthusiasts recommend using the TH-700-R4 overdrive unit on large V-8 and higher performance engines. However, in many V-6 and small V-8 applications, a TH-200-4R will fit with fewer modifications.
The TH-200-4R, like the TH-350, uses a 27-spline output shaft, which is similar in length to the TH-350 and the TH-200, making it a natural for many overdrive conversions. The TH-200-4R is also similar in length to the Powerglide and the B-O-P Super-Turbine 300 (two-speed), which makes it a popular unit for converting from a two-speed to a four-speed automatic.
The TH-200-4R has a 2.74:1 first gear ratio, and overdrive is 0.67:1. Its odd-shaped 16-bolt pan has 13mm bolt heads. The TH-200-4R was used in GM rear-wheel-drive cars equipped with the 231 Buick, 301 Pontiac, and the Oldsmobile 307, 350 gas and 350 diesel engines from 1981-'90; however, many Chevrolet 267 and 305 V-8s also used the TH-200-4R because of the multi-fit bellhousing. You can find a donor TH-200-4R in one of these cars:
1981-'90 Cadillac Fleetwood, de Ville and Brougham
1981-'88 Buick LeSabre, Electra RWD, Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Malibu and El Camino
1982-'90 Chevrolet Impala, Caprice, Olds Delta 88, 98 and Custom Cruiser
1984-'87 GMC Caballero and Pontiac Grand Prix
1983-'88 Olds Cutlass 442 and Supreme
1983-'89 Pontiac Bonneville, Parisienne and Safari Wagon
1981-'87 Buick Regal
1981 Buick Century and Pontiac Firebird with 301
The transmission identification is on a plate on the right side of the case towards the tailshaft. This ID plate is attached by one rivet. The plate will have a two- or three-letter transmission code in large letters.
The most desirable TH-200-4Rs for performance enthusiasts are the units manufactured for Buick Grand National, Olds 4-4-2 and Chevy Monte Carlo SS in 1986-'87. These units used a special valve body. They also had a larger reverse boost valve, second to third intermediate servo, and a specially designed governor assembly. Their BQ, OZ, CZF, KZF or BRF transmission codes can identify these more desirable units.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:59 pm

Thanks guys! I later found those articles after I posted this. I did end up getting it. It was rebuilt 10,000 miles ago and got the receipts and everything. 240 bucks. Looks like I got my winter project. Mating that to the 2.56 cogs and finally get to start doing some test runs next spring to see what else I'll need to upgrade. Besides a small fortune most likely in safety equipment. And maybe a parachute. (lol, just kidding......maybe) The biggest thing I'm worried about is it holding up to my big block. Though I won't be doing any burnouts or Launching from a standstill/drag racing so I'm not too worried. I just have to baby it for a while until I see how it drives. Should be pretty interesting. Stay tuned.....
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Joe73 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:05 am

I think your next upgrade should be the rear gears. Because 2.74 (1st gear ratio of the 200r4 trans) x 2.56 (your current gear ratio = 7.01. You want your calculation to be at least 9. Around 10 being the best for the street. So 3.73 would be my pic because 3.73 x 2.74 = 10.02. Now that will get up and go. And with its .67 final drive you can cruise at a low rpm.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:20 am

The overall goal I'm aiming for is the top end speed. I have brand new set of 3.73s but haven't put them in for that exact reason. With a .67 and 2.56 I should be "cruising" at roughly 100mph at 2000rpm. And with the first two gears being slightly higher (numerically) than a th350 it should actually pick up slightly quicker than it does now, no? I've heard of others with the same gearing and they say it basically idles at interstate speeds. I'll have the ratchet shifter hooked up so I'll most likely be using only the first 3 gears around town and pop it into o.d. on the highway, or "Texas mile". lol But like I said, I've heard of others with the same setup, I'd just like to try it for myself. And if for whatever reason it doesn't workout (I don't see why it wouldn't) I have the brand new 3.73s to throw at it. Eventually I would like to take it down to somewhere like the Texas mile or somewhere similar to see what it'll do. A long ways from there but this is a starting point.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:26 am

My current setup with the th350 1st gear (2.52) times the same 2.56 is 6.45 and I LOVE how it drives. It launches like the proverbial bat out of hell with all the low end torque it has and I can hold 1st gear up to 45 to 50mph if I'm really gettin on it. So I'm actually hoping with the higher 1st gear in the 200-4r it won't take tooooo much of that feeling away, but I guess we'll see.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Joe73 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:43 am

Big blocks definitely have more torque but not at such a low rpm. No gas engine makes any torque at low rpm. Thats where diesels come in. Basically, with overdrive, you dont want your highway rpm lower than about 1500 rpm (in OD). When your that low and you try to accelerate slowly (in OD) on the highway or you start to climb a slight grade, your trans will downshift because you dont have the torque at such a low rpm. You dont want that because going in and out of OD will kill the trans. More downshifting means more heat which means shorter trans life. In OD at around idle on the highway is a sure death of the trans. Good rear gear ratio makes up for the lower rpm of the motor. Gears are your torque multiplier.

Case in point. I had an 89 GMC Jimmy. 2.73 posi out back. On the highway it would come out of OD at the slightest incline. Well, blew the trans with 70k on her from excessive heat. RPMs were too low on the highway.

Now I drive a duramax diesel which makes 660 ft. lbs. of torque at only 1600 rpms. I have a 6 speed trans and I tow a 3000+ pound boat in OD. 3.73s out back on a locker. I can climb any hill with that weight and it wont come out of overdrive.

Take a look at some torque curves of gas engines in pickups. Like the dodge hemi. Good engine with 390 ft. lbs. of torque. People like to boast about that number. But no one looks at where that 390 comes in. It comes in at 4800 rpm. Who hits that rpm towing???

You dont want excessive shifting out of OD. And too low OD rpm will do that.

Just a thought for you.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:59 am

I see I see...Thanks for the info. Right now I'm just trying to collect as much info as I can that's out there. Trannys are still a new thing for me. My 454 was built around the idea of making low end power. The cam, intake, headers, heads, everything I could gear towards low end I did. So from about 1400 to 4000rpm is where all my power is. even with the gearing I have now it picks up very well in 1st gear. As far as going in and out of o.d. on interstate, I suppose couldn't I just have it manually selected for 3rd gear (1:00) and cruise, so it wouldn't shift into o.d. until I upshifted it? I plan on bypassing the electronics in it as I've seen others do. But in 3rd gear it's the same ratio as my th350 now (1:00) so it would cruise at 60 at 2000rpm which isn't bad.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Joe73 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:59 am

You could leave it in third and choose OD when you want but its still a shift. And you would have to be aware of when you want to go in and out of OD.
I say try it out and you always have the 3.73s if you change your mind.
The monte SS had 3.73s out back and most grand nationals had 3.42s out back. They cruised real nice on the highway with the 200r4. And they had some get up and go with those gears.
BTW, my 96 tahoe had the 4L60 (OD trans) which is basically an upgraded 700R4. With 3.42s out back it did 70 mph at 2000 rpm.
One step in gear ratio ie, 3.42 then 3.73 then 3.90 then 4.10 is about a 200 rpm increase or decrease depending on which way your going in gear.

Good luck with it.
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Re: Need help quick! Any difference b/t 200-r4 that came in 4.3 v6 monte and 5.0 monte?

Post by Oldschool454 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:44 pm

Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate it. I won't get around to swapping it in until this winter at least. But I'll be sure to let ya know how it goes.
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