Educate me on springs

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Educate me on springs

Post by KC77Monte on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:44 pm

Thinking about replacing the springs on the Monte this winter and really confused with all the choices out there. Variable rate, constant rate, H/D and so on.. Just looking to bring the car back to the factory height and give it a nice ride. Any thoughts
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by Joe73 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:52 pm

The fronts are a pretty easy choice. You can get stock or heavy duty for your application. The heavy duty will be a little stiffer than the stock and the car will sit higher than stock for a while till the springs "settle down". It still may sit a little higher even after the settling. If you go heavy duty, after you install them the car will sit "up there". They will settle.
As for the rears, lots of choices. The variable rate and the cargo are similar in styles. They look like a normal rear spring but one end of the spring has coils that are closer together. So your basically getting two different spring rates on the same spring. The tighter coils will compress easier than the wider coils.
Then there are the normal heavy duty for the rear. Again, they will sit higher than normal til they settle a little.
If your looking just for stock, then just order stock. If you want your car to sit a little higher than normal, go heavy duty.
I'm not a fan of the cargo or variable coils. I like heavy duty all around.
I love 1973monte's blue monte. That to me sits the nicest.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by dynchel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:21 am


For the record, here is Chris' car
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by Joe73 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:12 am

I love that stance.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 1973 454 MONTE on Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:44 am

thanx guys,not many people like the stance.




along time ago i looked up factory springs in a napa book.than i took that info and found taller springs. i have never found out what the springs actually went to.
here are the numbers that chris put on his maroon 73-350 monte.
FRONT he USED 277-1954 AND
THE REAR 277-3189.
he had them crossed referenced to someone elses.

http://www.g3gm.com/t5900-think-i-need-springs?highlight=napa+springs
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by ant7377 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:52 pm

Joe, you remember when everyone used to have their cars sitting up like that? Every Cutlass Monte Regal. B body. Caddies everything. Every one use to run them up high like that in the 80's early 90's . I had my 77 up like that for a while too. I had extra high lift springs I bought from JC whitney in the back and the HD springs in front. They looked so cool with tru spokes tinted windows and clean whitewalls back in the good old days. Still looks good today. If I get another B body Im going to do it that way say a 79 Delta or a Caddy Coupe Deville.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:42 am

What kind of ride quality are you wanting KC? Do you want to "feel" the road, or do you want to have the classic American luxury ride? Single rate springs are easier to estimate ride height.

Front springs are usually always a single rate spring with the suspension we have on our cars, while rear springs can be variable rate or single rate. Figuring ride height requires a little math for the front due to the a-arm, and the rear is pretty easy. The primary thing that is critical to know is the weight of your car on both the front and rear tires, then subtract the weight of the wheel tire combo.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by Joe73 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:37 am

Yes ant. I remeber it well. My chevelle was.like that til i took her apart. Not great for ride quality but i liked it. Imy chevelle was running big block, heavy duty, with a/c up front and i had none of that up there. Sat real high.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by dynchel on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:13 am

That look must not have really took off here. There were a few...mostly in the Cleveland (inner city).  I remember cars with 15/10 reverse offset (sticking out on all four corners) being popular in that era.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:16 pm

Just be sure there is enough travel length in the shocks to not be the limiting part for the suspension.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by KC77Monte on Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:53 pm

Thanks Guys
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by brownbomber77 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:20 am

I've got a set of Impala SS springs you can have real cheap so you're not ridin' dirty way the hell up there. They would drop it about an inch which would give it a real nice stance and they're a little stiffer.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by Limey SE on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:30 am

Dan I messaged you at 73-77olds about these ?
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by brownbomber77 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:44 am

I've been having probs on der with PM's, just call me. 815-298-2912

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:37 pm

ant7377 wrote:Joe, you remember when everyone used to have their cars sitting up like that? Every Cutlass Monte Regal. B body. Caddies everything. Every one use to run them up high like that in the 80's early 90's . I had my 77 up like that for a while too. I had extra high lift springs I bought from JC whitney in the back and the HD springs in front. They looked so cool with tru spokes tinted windows and clean whitewalls back in the good old days. Still looks good today. If I get another B body Im going to do it that way say a 79 Delta or a Caddy Coupe Deville.

That brings me back to the early 90's. Had a black 1981 Olds 98 2 door and then a 84 98 2 door both riding high on gold 30 spokes and Vouges. I got very tired of the car thieves peeling my columns. I used to unplug my distributor every night, had kill switches, alarms, etc. A black 81 Coupe Deville on tru spokes would be a cool ride today.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 76 Malibu on Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:22 pm

In my experience when I have changed springs, there is usually very little settling after they are installed.  So if the ride height is way too high don't expect to come down much.  It also seems stiffer springs settle less, and I have always installed stiff springs as a general rule.

Stock replacement springs from Moog (or other companies) will give you close to factory ride and height.  Typically the aftermarket spring companies reduce the number of spring choices available compared to the factory.  Say GM offered 12 different front springs, Moog will probably only offer 3 sets for the same car.  Keep in mind you can "adjust" your ride height on your front springs by cutting the coils in small increments.  You must cut the springs with a cut off wheel or saw, never use a torch or something else that will heat it up.  The more of the spring that is cut, the more the spring rate will increase. Rear springs cannot be trimmed due to the pig tails.

I wanted something stiffer than what Moog offers so I am running global west springs front and rear.  My car is a non-a/c car and is a little light on the front end, so it may sit higher than other cars.  These springs had almost no settling since installed several years ago.  I am thinking I may trim half a coil to lower the front just a touch.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Moog offers springs stiffer than the Global West (550-600lb.?)springs I believe. I am using Moog 5664 front springs which are 750 lbs for a Iroc Camaro convertible. With an all aluminum LS1 w/AC the car sits about 1/2-3/4" lower than stock. With an iron small block it might sit 1-1-1/2" lower than stock my guess, depending on AC,etc. Or you could use Moog 5662 700lb springs. Cant beat either for about $60 a pair.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 76 Malibu on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:28 pm

I knew there were stiffer springs offered by Moog, but none are specified for G3's. So this is good information that those springs work well in our cars. I have noticed Crown Victoria police spec springs are 710 in/lbs (Moog 80090) and thought that they might work well too, but they may need to be trimmed to get the ride height proper.

The Global West springs were somewhere around 550-600 lbs IIRC. With a 1 1/4" sway bar in the front there almost no body roll and the ride is excellent.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:01 am

If you search google for a moog spring chart, you can find all the specs on the springs. Load height, free height, wire diameter, etc. I think the problems with the Crown Vic springs would be the inner and outer diameter, they might be too narrow or wide to sit in the lower control arm correctly. The 3rd gen f-body, s10 pickup blazers, astro van all have a similar id od spring. I want to try 85-95 Astro variable rate springs, they start at 600 lbs.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by dynchel on Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:12 am

73CopperMonte wrote:If you search google for a moog spring chart, you can find all the specs on the springs. Load height, free height, wire diameter, etc. I think the problems with the Crown Vic springs would be the inner and outer diameter, they might be too narrow or wide to sit in the lower control arm correctly. The 3rd gen f-body, s10 pickup blazers, astro van all have a similar id od spring. I want to try 85-95 Astro variable rate springs, they start at 600 lbs.
                                                         .  I have a pair of rear springs for '03 crown vic right here (spares for my d/d)  They look like they would be close but i dont have a pair of g3 springs to compare them to.  Their diameter is definatly smaller.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:03 am

The rear springs are different, ours are pigtailed on both ends. The inner diameter of the pigtail, the free height and the spring rate is what I look for to find rear springs. If they are like 12.5-14" tall and have a 2.5" id pigtail on each end they should be close. If they are over 200lb. springs the car would handle better. I have @250lb gm limo springs in the rear, but I might try g3 Malibu wagon rear springs that are 198lb. to lower the rear a little.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:08 am

Looks like 03 Crown Vic rear springs are 130lb and police cars are 160lb. about the same ride as our stock springs.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by dynchel on Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:16 am

The fronts won't work since either since the front (of a '03 crown vic ) has struts.  Maybe earlier year will work.
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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by 73CopperMonte on Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:39 am

I would probably try Astro van front springs if I had the original small block in my car. My guesstimate it would sit a 1/2" to 1" lower than stock, but that is just a guess, and ride nice due to the vari spring rate. Its all about calculating spring compression with weight of the vehicle it was designed for and adding or subtracting the difference in weight of your vehicle. I knew my car would sit @1/2" lower than stock with the Moog 5664 springs due to the lighter LS1 engine.

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Re: Educate me on springs

Post by Limey SE on Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:19 pm

Going to try Impala SS lowering front springs later this year, Says they will take an inch or so Lower will keep y'all updated to see how they workout.
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