front brake upgrade

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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:44 am

In case you didn't know, the OE rotors had a groove down the center from the factory.....if that is the groove you are talking about.  It was supposed to keep the pads from chattering.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:09 am

What if you try buying 2 sets of rear shoes and use the secondary shoes for all 4? That way you get more material on the drums to help stop. I've done it on foot brake drag cars, to hold on the starting line. It may improve the rear stopping of the drums if you have larger rear tires to prevent lockup.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:34 am

You lost me on that one bracketchev. Yeah I knew it had a groove cut out in it from factory up front.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by bracketchev1221 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:56 am

Your rear brakes have a shorter primary shoe on the front half of the brakes and the rear shoe or secondary is larger. The reason is that the front shoe or primary does the majority of the stopping and the rear has to be larger to apply equal pressure to the drum. So I was thinking you could buy 2 sets of brake shoes and use the 4 secondary shoes to help the drums stop better on the rear.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:26 am

I never thought of that, pretty slick idea.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:57 am

Ic. Back seems to be working really well now. I just want to upgrade the front now. I am just trying to decide what pad to go with.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by Mcarlo77 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:11 pm

I'm going out on a limb here...but, I'd guess a great deal of time and study went into the design of the smaller/larger combo of brake shoes for the rears.  Afterall, what would be the Engineering incentive to not have the same size on both if there wasn't a possible pitfall to doing it that way?  I've never heard of anyone trying to put large shoes on both front and back for day to day type driving...and, a voice inside tells me that might not be such a great idea.  All I know is I'm not going to be the one to try it.  Besides, I've never had any problems or complaints with how good quality brake shoes (or, pads/rotors for that matter) have performed for my style of driving.  I'm not an aggressive driver pushing 70-80 mph into tight corners...and, I'm certainly not Trans Am racing down the streets. The terrain around these parts is pretty flat, so there isn't a lot of downgrade braking, either. Just my two-cents...
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by pila on Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:32 pm

I'm no expert on brakes for sure, but I always figured the front shoes were shorter, so that the rotation of the drum couldn't pull the front shoes into the drums an make them grab a bit(?)  Just a brain fart maybe... Question Very Happy
I use the cheapie discs ( rotors ) on my pickup, and just toss them & get new ones when they get grooved or rough etc, but I use the best pads ( usually expensive ) on them...

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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by Mcarlo77 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:47 pm

Yeah...remember the days when brake rotors/drums were thicker and of a harder metal to allow a person to have them "turned" once or twice when swapping on new pads/shoes? Now, the Chinese junk the auto parts stores are selling are nothing but throw-aways.

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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by 77mali on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Mcarlo77 wrote:Yeah...remember the days when brake rotors/drums were thicker and of a harder metal to allow a person to have them "turned" once or twice when swapping on new pads/shoes?  Now, the Chinese junk the auto parts stores are selling are nothing but throw-aways.

I remember those days. I'll be re-workinig the 77 malibu rotors as they still have plenty O' meat.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:47 pm

Mcarlo77 wrote:I'm going out on a limb here...but, I'd guess a great deal of time and study went into the design of the smaller/larger combo of brake shoes for the rears.  Afterall, what would be the Engineering incentive to not have the same size on both if there wasn't a possible pitfall to doing it that way?  I've never heard of anyone trying to put large shoes on both front and back for day to day type driving...and, a voice inside tells me that might not be such a great idea.  All I know is I'm not going to be the one to try it.  Besides, I've never had any problems or complaints with how good quality brake shoes (or, pads/rotors for that matter) have performed for my style of driving.  I'm not an aggressive driver pushing 70-80 mph into tight corners...and, I'm certainly not Trans Am racing down the streets.  The terrain around these parts is pretty flat, so there isn't a lot of downgrade braking, either.  Just my two-cents...
In Rays defense, he did say it worked well on his foot brake drag car.  Honestly I think the main purpose if the different shoe sizes was to prevent lock up, something that would be very important when selling a new car, not so much on a hobby car with a driver who know his car.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by WyldeBill66 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:05 pm

Around here, it's more expensive to have the rotors turned than it is to replace them. Probably due to them being cheap Chinese rotors.

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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:17 am

All I know is my wife's Dodge Journey can out drive my Chevelle in the corners and can stop on a dime. I have to back up an 1/8 mile and go look for the dime. It is an suv and it feels much sportier than my car. That gets under my skin. I won't stay that way I can assure you! It is just a matter of time. I can't let an suv out perform a Chevelle! lol
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:25 am

My "74 handles really well considering there is really nothing exotic about the suspension.  Did you replace the control arm bushings? My front is stock rebuilt with a one inch sway bar (urethene bushings and end links) new control arm bushings, moog b/j's and tie rods, and cut b/b springs.  The rear has aftermarket arms, stock coils and a impala bar.  The cars limiting factor is the tires..they start to howl and slide first.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:31 am

dynchel wrote:My "74 handles really well considering there is really nothing exotic about the suspension.  Did you replace the control arm bushings? My front is stock rebuilt with a one inch sway bar (urethene bushings and end links) new control arm bushings, moog b/j's and tie rods, and cut b/b springs.  The rear has aftermarket arms, stock coils and a impala bar.  The cars limiting factor is the tires..they start to howl and slide first.

I never worried about cornering in any of my cars. The 15X3.5" wheels made sure of that. Very Happy
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:35 am

My goal has always been straight line acceleration, but along the way one change at a time I noticed that it handled quite well.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:55 am

Here is my setup as of right now.

355 ci.  around 350hp or so maybe a few more with the headers and such.
273 rear gear and Jegs 450hp rated 350 turbo.

Everything replaced under front end excluding what needed to be pressed out or pressed in.  All factory replacement parts.

New Idler arm
New Inner/Outter tie rod ends
New Centerlink
Belltec HD front springs stock height
Gabriel Ultra HD shocks.
CPP 74 Camaro 2" drop spindle.
New Cardone Stock replacement caliper.
New rubber lines.
Assuming original rotors, steering box, rag joint.
Stock sway bay.  

In rear everything is stock excluding:
Belltec 1" lowering springs.
Gabriel Ultra HD shocks.
No sway bar.

Don't get me wrong it handles 10 times better than it used to, but its not where I want it to be.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:58 am

A rear sway bar would help a lot..slap
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by Joe73 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:00 am

bracketchev1221 wrote:
dynchel wrote:My "74 handles really well considering there is really nothing exotic about the suspension.  Did you replace the control arm bushings? My front is stock rebuilt with a one inch sway bar (urethene bushings and end links) new control arm bushings, moog b/j's and tie rods, and cut b/b springs.  The rear has aftermarket arms, stock coils and a impala bar.  The cars limiting factor is the tires..they start to howl and slide first.

I never worried about cornering in any of my cars. The 15X3.5" wheels made sure of that. Very Happy

I'm with you. 3.5" front rims dont do much for handling. What size tire are you running on the 3.5"?
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:19 am

The plan for the future as money and time allows:
Get a rear sway bar
Upgrade to coil overs on all four corners 1000.00
Do a disc conversion on the rear 500.00
Upgrade to drilled and slotted rotors on all four corners 250.00
Get adjustable upper and boxed rear lower control arms 260.00
Wide 18 tires and wheels with a lower profile tire for less tire roll in the corners.

I think I will be much happier when I get to this point.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by dynchel on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:22 am

For now go to pull a part & try to get a rear bar.  Should be pretty cheap (mine was $40.00)
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

I plan to check my parts car to see if it has one. I never really thought to check it until recently. I just haven't had time to get up there. If it does I will wait to cold weather as I said before I refer to it as the snake mobile!
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:00 am

I would always use a rear sway bar no matter what the application, drag or handling. I plan on putting one on my 76.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by bracketchev1221 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:02 am

Joe73 wrote:
bracketchev1221 wrote:
dynchel wrote:My "74 handles really well considering there is really nothing exotic about the suspension.  Did you replace the control arm bushings? My front is stock rebuilt with a one inch sway bar (urethene bushings and end links) new control arm bushings, moog b/j's and tie rods, and cut b/b springs.  The rear has aftermarket arms, stock coils and a impala bar.  The cars limiting factor is the tires..they start to howl and slide first.

I never worried about cornering in any of my cars. The 15X3.5" wheels made sure of that. Very Happy

I'm with you.  3.5" front rims dont do much for handling.  What size tire are you running on the 3.5"?

I have used the 26" Mickey Thompson sportsmans on my 78 Malibu, the 28" sportsmans on the Chevelle going in to the 10.30's, and I think they were 165/80-15's on the Nova.
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Re: front brake upgrade

Post by driveit on Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:00 pm

I hope my 75 has one I can pull off. I just have to get up to my mom's place to take a look.
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Re: front brake upgrade

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