Re: Define pro-touring

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:36 am

I have to remember the rear end weight will end up in gas and A$$ so that will give the rear a slight rake.

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:37 am

I need those rims real bad, damn. !2 hours await!! Oh yeah i get em whole sale.

by coreys73chevelle Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:40 am

how wide?

by coreys73chevelle Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:40 am

get on chat.

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:04 am

What how wide the stance

by BlackChevelleSS Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:46 am

Hydro King wrote:
BlackChevelleSS wrote:this is my idea of pro touring
When your front tires are as big as your rears....

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0504_1969_chevrolet_camaro/index.html

that has no "BIG" modified suspension upgrades....

I think you need to reconsider your statment about having no "big" modified suspension upgrades. Big red is probably the closest youll ever get to pro-touring with a muscle car... hell it even started the pro-touring trend

by BlackChevelleSS Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:50 am

Osborne built the chassis using the day's state-of-the-art stock car parts designed to handle the high-speed loads that come with open road racing. Larry Mollicone freshened the 540 and they backed it with a Jerico four-speed. An all-steel '69 Camaro body was dropped over it, complete with functioning doors, roll-up windows, and a stock dash. The seats were even leather-covered Recaros, not full-race aluminum jobs. The difference between Big Reds One and Two were immediately obvious, and all involved knew the car was going to be unstoppable.

Big Red Two, now known simply as Big Red, ran La Carerra a few more times until that race turned into a rally, prompting Dan Gottlieb to help start the Silver State Classic open road race. That bonzai run with HOT ROD on board happened at the '89 Silver State, where Big Red really got the world's attention. This and other magazines showcased this glorious car (including a great Road & Track shootout wherein Big Red flat-out embarrassed a lot of ridiculously expensive tuner exotics), and readers immediately recognized it as quite possibly the coolest Camaro of all time.
And they began to try to duplicate it. Within a few years, we started seeing wide wheels and big brakes on all-around performance cars. As Pro Street turned to full race, a new trend caught on spurred by Big Red's stance and attitude, germinating in, most notably, Mark Stielow's One Lap of America '69 Camaro, built and raced in 1993. Stielow, through Chevy High Performance's Jeff Smith, named the trend Pro Touring, and we were off to the (street) races. Popular Hot Rodding loved the idea but refused to acknowledge its competitor's success in naming the trend first, and dubbed these cars "g Machines."

Define pro-touring - Page 2 113_0504_03z+1969_chevrolet_camaro_z28+engine_view

Define pro-touring - Page 2 113_0504_03z+1969_chevrolet_camaro_z28+engine_view

Define pro-touring - Page 2 113_0504_red05_z

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 am

Big brakes and billet wheels, are the tip of the iceburg, you really need upgraded suspension to be a pro-touring car, even if it's just bigger sway bars, and stiffer springs that also lower the car. Everything else is really preference. However, modified suspension is a must.

What's pro-touring and what isn't can be debated. Pro-touring is really taking an older muscle car and making it perform like a new vette, all the while maintaining a decent level of comfort. To some, a stout engine, 20" wheels, better brakes, sway bars, and the guldstrand mod is all a pro-touring car they need, and it definitely is pro-touring.

As for the "bolt-on" argument. Everything to a degree is a bolt-on. However, welding in a rear suspension and a coilover kit up front, does not constitue bolt ons, just because it was available in kit form. Rather, stock shocks, and "bolting" on tubular control arms up front is more what the term bolt-on refers to.

The phrase "pro-touring" is tossed around too easily now. Anyone that attended any large events like Carlisle or goodguy's will know that. I absolutely HATE how people slap on a set of 17s and call their car pro-touring. I've seen guys with completely stock (slow POS) 1st & 2nd gens with stock suspensions and drum brakes put 17" wheels on their car and call it pro-touring. UGGGGH!

Big Red is nice but the wheels are way to small to be pro-touring.... It has no rear coilovers or any rear suspension upgrades looks to stock, Nice G-Machine though..

by BlackChevelleSS Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23 pm

Hydro King wrote:Big Red is nice but the wheels are way to small to be pro-touring.... It has no rear coilovers or any rear suspension upgrades looks to stock, Nice G-Machine though..

Sorry but I think if youve got wheels bigger than 18s on your muscle car maybe you should go hang out with your black friends and their 22s

Quick Inspection:
'69 Camaro
R.J. Gottlieb, Los Angeles, CA

Powertrain
Engine: It's all serious Rat, with a Donovan aluminum block, a 4.250-stroke King crank, Carrillo rods and 4.50-inch JE pistons that make 540 cubes. Airflow Research heads, a Pro Systems Dominator on a Dart intake, and custom headers with Borla mufflers make enough power to push the stock body well over 200.
Power: It makes 874 hp and 655 lb-ft of torque, both at 7,000 rpm.
Transmission: The Jerico four-speed crash box is linked to an RPS Stage IV clutch with a Cyn-R-G segmented flywheel and a carbon-carbon dual-disc setup.
Rearend: A full-floating 9-inch Ford rearend takes all the abuse. The axles are 31-spline, gun-drilled pieces, and the gearing changes depending on the venue. They run 3.25:1 gears while testing on a closed track, 2.79s for an event like the Z2Z Challenge, and a 2.49:1 ring-and-pinion for 220-plus mph speeds at flat-out open road races.

Chassis
Frame: Bill Osborne's Inland Chassis Design built what is essentially a stock car chassis with 2x3 rectangular-tubing framerails. With the stock '69 Camaro body dropped over it, the stance is unlike that of any other Camaro you've ever seen.
Suspension: The front end is supported by coilovers with Grigg's Racing shocks and Vogtland springs. The steering is a Stiletto rack-and-pinion, and the tubular sway bar is from Speedway Engineering. In back, it's also Grigg's/Vogtland coilovers with a three-link and panhard bar.

Brakes: Baer Racing is one of the car's primary sponsors, so it's no wonder Big Red wears the latest Baer 6S six-piston brakes clamping huge 14-inch rotors on each corner. The car will need those big brakes to come down from 200 mph.
Wheels: The wheels are "high-tech, old-school" 18-inch BBS three-piece units with magnesium centers.
Tires: Bet you've never seen an early Camaro with 335s on the front. Now you have. They're 335/30ZR-18 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-Fioranos on all four corners.

Style Body: It's a bone-stock, all-steel '69 Camaro RS body with steel everything except for a fiberglass cowl-induction hood.
Paint: Mike Face Auto Painting applied bright red paint with white Z/28 stripes.
Interior: The stock dash is still covered by a stock pad, and the comfy seats are leather-covered Recaros (circa 1988). Even with a full `cage and aftermarket pedals, the car is shockingly comfortable. It feels like a stock '69 Camaro inside, and we'd have no problem going 200 in it.

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:27 pm

No mention on any upgraded rear suspension makes me think half stock, and all upgraded up front makes it... Sleep

by JB2wheeler Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:50 pm

coreys73chevelle wrote:i found it, read this

http://www.protouring.se/

Pro Touring is about having a car that handles extremely well both in corners and on a straight course.

To qualify as a Pro touring car it has to have improved handling through suspension modificatiosn. It has to have large brakes for improved braking. And it also has to have large wheels, The reason for the wheels is simple, you can't fit the brakes with 15" rims.

On top of this it has to have a powerful engine, we are talking performance here, looks is secondary but of course important too.

Pro Touring is about making a car that only has reasonable driving performance perform really well. If done properly it can outperform the true sportcars.

Thats it! I built my 74 Elky as Pro Touring. I use 17 inch wheels for brake clearance, which I don't have the money for yet, and have updated suspension for great cornering and a quiet, sort of, exhaust for extended time behind the wheel. A Dart Big M 540 for a little excitement and low, but not too low, stance for ground clearance on all road surfaces. No major exterior alterations, but will get a nice shiny new paint job one of these days. It still has the original paint on a 44,000 chassis. JB

by BlackChevelleSS Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:01 pm

Hydro King wrote:No mention on any upgraded rear suspension makes me think half stock, and all upgraded up front makes it...

I underlined it. got to remember a 69 camaro used leaf springs in the rear.

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:05 pm

Oh yeah, thats a bolt on application. That is not pro-touring.

by BlackChevelleSS Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:09 pm

Hydro King wrote:Oh yeah, thats a bolt on application. That is not pro-touring.

Bolt on? WTF?

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:26 pm

Pro-Touring involves welding in a superior rear end suspension kit. Razz

by Limey SE Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:06 pm

i feel even with leaf springs you still can achieve pro-touring for they make a lot of different applications for stiffness and ride levels just like for coil spring cars.......

by JB2wheeler Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:26 pm

Hydro King wrote:Pro-Touring involves welding in a superior rear end suspension kit.

What is a superior rear end suspension? What color car is the best, a green one or a red one? What flavor ice cream is best strawberry or chocolate? Do you like blonds or red headed women the best? Get my point? JB

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:50 pm

I like em ten years younger than myself....

by Limey SE Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:28 pm

green car ,strawberry ice cream with choco syrup ,and women well as long as they alive and breathing and in my age range they can be BALD for all that matters LOL

by Hydro King Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:39 pm

Think Skittles

by Limey SE Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:44 pm

taste the rainbow brother

by yogreasygramma Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:02 pm

THE MALIGOON wrote:green car ,strawberry ice cream with choco syrup ,and women well as long as they alive and breathing and in my age range they can be BALD for all that matters LOL

Bald?! LOL...that's going a bit far, don't you think? Very Happy