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Post by Iraq 69 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:18 pm

Hey guys,
The car came back after having an LS engine installed along with all the wiring that goes along with it. Was getting ready to have it inspected and the horn no longer works. Figured a wire was off the relay or a bad relay. Went to look and guess what? No horn relay.......
Now what?
Marc

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Post by Hs1973 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:04 am

Put a horn relay back in. There should be a stud on the firewall left of the brake booster, where all the fusible links connect up. That is where the horn relay should be. However i belive the 73 relay is a one year deal only, and wery hard to find. So maybe the guy who put in the ls has the relay still? I Found mine at 396ss.com but it was Pricey. I hope the wiring for the horn is still there. I know the horn wire is green, cant remember the other colours. Hope of course the 73 cutlass is like the chevelle, or i could be Wrong. Hope this helps a little.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 am

Thanks. There is no stud on the firewall. That is all gone.i have a pic of the wire loom going from the bulkhead connector to the lights and horn. Can I use these wires for the horn to make it work?73 cutlass dead horn 4c2ae510
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Post by bigredlaguna on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:58 am

The tan and light green wires should be for the headlights. They are both positionally above where the black wire should be in the bulkhead connector. I can't tell very well the colors at the connector in these pics.
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Post by Hs1973 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:16 pm

I would have liked to take a picture of how mine is. However i dont have acces to my car the next 3 days. The stud should be to the right of the bulkhead connector, just a little higher up. Im pretty sure there should be 2 wires in the relay. 1 Dark green going out to the horn out under the grill. And one brown going in the relay. Power comes from all the red fusible links sitting on the relay. Try and follow the wires from the starter to the bulkhead and find the fusible links where they all meet up. Or follow the Dark green wire backwards from the horn to the bulkhead. Close to where it stops should be a brown wire from the relay. Or it should be hanging out of the bulkhead connector.

Off course there is a chance it is all is changed because of the ls wire loom. In that case you will need to rewire it from the steering column. Hop you find a solution.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:31 pm

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the info. I will get back out to the car tomorrow

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Post by bigredlaguna on Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:42 pm

The interior side of the connector should match the engine bay side, so if you have the black wire going to it from the horn button you should be able to re-pin the wire on the engine bay side. Everything else should be in the engine bay. Good luck.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:57 am

Hey guys,
First off, thanks for all the help.
Second, there is no relay or wires left. All the fusible link wires are gone. The only wires left coming from that side of the bulkhead connector are the 6 in the loom I have a picture of. If I get the black horn button wire out through the firewall and find the right wire for the horn, what else do I need to make the horn work?
The complete starting system under the hood has been changed so there are no wires of the factory harness to follow.
I will look at finding the correct black and green after work.
Thanks again and I’ll keep plugging along

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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Hey guys,
Couple things. Here are two pics of that same connection at the firewall. There is a brown wire that goes down to the brake proportioning valve. The dark green and brown wires come out to the double connector and then become the green wire that goes to the horn. They do not come from the same bulkhead connector. The dark green comes out of the loom from the direction of the other side (against the flow of wire) and the brown comes from the second bulkhead connector where all the other loom wires come from.  The other single connector has a brown wire out of the first bulkhead connector and it has a male fitting that is attached to the under hood light.
The wire loom from the steering column Has three black wires. 73 cutlass dead horn 91ed6710
73 cutlass dead horn B0c22710
A black with blue, black attached to a pink wire and then a plain black in the last pin position. Any ideas which is the horn button?
Thanks again,
Marc

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Post by bigredlaguna on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:47 am

I will have to take a look at my 74. I ordered a brand new 73 harness for it in order to get rid of the seat belt interlock.  I think you might be looking at the opposite side of the connector from where the black wire you need is. Black/blue  should be blue and goes to the washer/wiper, almost everything with pink is an ignition switched circuit, and the black you describe should have a yellow stripe if it is in the position I think it is and also go to the washer/wiper.

The black wire you need should have the light green directly above it, and a tan directly above the light green. The corner spot should be empty. The tan wire going to the proportioning valve will be next to the empty corner along the bottom of the connector.
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Post by bigredlaguna on Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:14 am

I can't find a relay on the engine side at all. It is so tight in there with the booster and washer fluid tank it just doesn't make sense to put a relay there. I bet it is under the dash.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:26 am

Hey,
You are right. There is another black wire coming out of the steering column. It is black and yellow. It was turned to look like it was just yellow.
There is no relay under the dash. In some old engine compartment pics it looks like the relay was near where the distributor was whith the old engine.

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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:30 am

It is impossible to see what comes out of the other bulkhead connector with the brake booster and engine in the car. I tried that too.
All I need is the horn and nothing else the relay would normally do.
Thanks again for everyone’s help.

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Post by Joe73 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:34 am

Is there something in the way that you cant put the horn relay where it originally went?  

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Post by Joe73 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:35 am

Take the drivers wheel well out. That will give you plenty room to see whats going on. Real easy to remove.
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Post by bigredlaguna on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:53 pm

Joe73 wrote:Is there something in the way that you cant put the horn relay where it originally went?  

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That relay also serves as the junction block that is in a 74. The 74 model year should also have the seat belt interlock relay right there. With the washer bottle in place, that spot where the relay is is the only possible place to have an easily serviceable part.

What is strange about my 74, is that I ordered a replacement harness for a 73 in order to remove the interlock wiring because the bulkhead connectors are the same for those two years. I have a loose connector in that vicinity that looks like it may go to the horn relay, but my horn still works. 1974 model year moved the relay under the dash and had a regular junction block in the engine bay. I don't remember modifying that circuit. Weird.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:14 pm

Hey,
My firewall does not have holes there. Mine has holes over near where the distributor was.
I can mount it there by the booster/washer bottle. I just need to know what to buy and what wires need to go where. Like I said, all I need is the horn and no other functions of the relay.
Again, thanks

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Post by bigredlaguna on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:57 pm

Positioning of the components may be a little different between makes. The stuff we are showing you is Chevy. The wire colors should be the same for the specific circuits.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:18 am

Got it. Thanks.
So now that I know where the horn wire is, the black wire from the horn button is what else do I need? A relay of course(maybe), again, all I need is a horn at this point. I can get 12 volt power from a couple places on the right side of the car.
Thanks again for all your help

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Post by bigredlaguna on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:15 am

Just a relay is what it sounds like to me, provided that the original ground didn't get cut out of the harness.
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Post by Hs1973 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:10 am

It sounds like all you need is a relay and you should be able to wire th horn up o work again. As long as you have the green from the horn and he Black from the column (i was pretty sure mine was Dark brown, but it is Black. Hard to tell in the Dark)
Then all you ned is a little power and you should be good to go. You cant put the relay where it feels most convinient fo you. Mine sits a little lower than the picture Joe put up. Im guessing the factory did not care to much about location.
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Post by Iraq 69 on Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:27 am

Hey guys,
I am going to be out of pocket for a few days. I will pick up a relay while I am out of town and give it a shot late next week when I am home.
I will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again,
Marc

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Post by Iraq 69 on Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:36 pm

Hey All,
Back in town and we do have a functioning horn!!
Found the wires and ran them where they needed to go. Found a hole and bolt on the inner fender area and so just mounted the relay there.
Thanks for all your help to get this fixed. Now, on to the inspection and a current registration so we can drive this bad boy.
Marc73 cutlass dead horn Ef43d810

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