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Cloyes Timing Set - too tight??

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76Chevelle2Tone
73ss
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Cloyes Timing Set - too tight?? Empty Cloyes Timing Set - too tight??

Post by 76 Malibu Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:39 pm

I bought a new Cloyes 9-1100 double roller timing set to replace my OEM set. I am not sure if I am missing something, but I cannot for the life of me get his set to fit on my engine.  It's almost as if the chain is just a touch too short.  I am probably about a 1/16" away from the dowel pin lining up.  I even tried use a pry bar against the block, and I am not even remotely close to getting it to line up. I reinstalled the stock timing set, and it went on with ease, just to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

Did I end up with a defective timing set?  Or I am I missing something? Maybe I should have just stuck with a stock style chain...
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Post by 73ss Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:23 pm

You may have gotten a -.005 or -.010  set for a align bored block. See if there any markings like that on the box or the timing set. It may have been mis-boxed also.

They make sets that are -005 or 10 smaller for blocks that have had the mains align honed or bored. I had to get a .005 smaller set for my motor, Otherwise the stock length had way too much slop.
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Cloyes Timing Set - too tight?? Empty application notes

Post by 76Chevelle2Tone Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:53 am

These are the application notes for your chain: 4 degrees of crankshaft advance/retard reflects 2 degrees of camshaft advance/retard. Not for factory roller cam applications.

Is that what you want?

FWIW I got and installed a Cloyes 3001k without incident.
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Post by 76 Malibu Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:59 am

I picked this set for the true roller, not for the ability to advance or retard the cam. I thought it would be nice upgrade for a few more dollars. I was trying to install it straight up. In hindsight maybe I should have just went with the basic Cloyes 3001k.
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Post by zucchi Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:37 am

The set I used for my first engine (stock 350 SB) was C-3023(X or K; only different is the X has 3 keyways on the crank gear for advance/retard adjustment). It has a center-to-center distance of 4.521 in.

Don't discount 73ss' thought that the set you received may have been mis-boxed or mis-labeled. Though it's rare, that does happen and, speaking for myself, it's probably the most frustrating issue to deal with because you know you're doing everything correctly and it's just not fitting.

There's a reasonable expectation that the new part inside the package is what is described on the outside of the package; you shouldn't have to compare the new part to the old one with a micrometer to verify the QC that the manufacturer should have done. Unfortunately, this has happened to me often enough to where I got into the habit of doing just that; double checking and scrutinizing replacement parts.

Good luck and keep us updated.
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Post by Iggy Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:56 am

That is the timing set I use on my small blocks - have never had an issue. It sounds like you have the set for a line-bored block. I always align-hone my mains, but do not line-bore, have not had a block with that problem.
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Post by g3chevy / Mr Pontiac Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:39 pm

I think 73ss is on track. I also saw this on a video a couple weeks back. This guy bought a new timing set for his 4.0 jeep engine and the rollers on the chain did not fit all the way down in the grooves of the sprocket. He claimed the upper sprocket was not machined properly. A possibility???
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Post by 76 Malibu Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:59 pm

I emailed Cloyes and they sent this response.  Seems like a good company to deal with:

 I am sorry you are having fitment issues with that 9-1100 set. Our intention is to provide a set that fits nice and tight, but on occasion you can end up with a set that fits a little tight or loose. All three components have a dimensional tolerance range, and that tolerance stack can add up to a set that fits a little too tight. You can work with Summit Racing to refund or replace your purchase or I would be happy to hand match the set and return it to you if you wanted to send it here.

At this point I will return and get a new one.  It's annoying though to have to go through the process as it is very time consuming.

Do you guys think I should stick with the Double Roller, or just go back to a standard chain? I am only replacing because my original chain has a fair amount of slack and I also want to ditch the nylon teeth. I can also found that there is a Edelbrock double roller NIB for sale locally i could get for cheap.
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Post by Iggy Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:49 am

I personally do not see a need for a double roller with a cam of less than 210* duration at .050" lift, for a stock and RV cam I will use the standard link-belt timing set - I use nothing but Cloyes timing sets and NAPA brand sets are re-boxed Cloyes. At least go with the all metal link belt set, but I can tell you from my experience that the Street True Roller you purchased is an very nice set.
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Post by 76Chevelle2Tone Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:57 pm

76 Malibu wrote:I emailed Cloyes and they sent this response.  Seems like a good company to deal with:


Do you guys think I should stick with the Double Roller, or just go back to a standard chain?  I am only replacing because my original chain has a fair amount of slack and I also want to ditch the nylon teeth.  I can also found that there is a Edelbrock double roller NIB for sale locally i could get for cheap.

Bear in mind that the original parts are now 50 years old. Yes putting a stock timing chain might mean it would wear out a bit sooner but that assumes that you will be driving the car 40 or 50 years from now when it would matter. It also assumes that the performance chain or other scattered performance type parts won't have some side effect in a basically stock car if I am correctly interpreting your posts. This is why I am being very careful to maintain the stock character of my car and I have had very few issues replacing parts and systems.
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Post by zucchi Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:19 pm

76Chevelle2Tone wrote:
76 Malibu wrote:Do you guys think I should stick with the Double Roller, or just go back to a standard chain?  I am only replacing because my original chain has a fair amount of slack and I also want to ditch the nylon teeth.

…Yes putting a stock timing chain might mean it would wear out a bit sooner but that assumes that you will be driving the car 40 or 50 years from now…

STAY AWAY FROM STOCK NYLON TEETH CAM GEAR SETUP; see my post here – https://www.g3gm.com/t4297-th350-transmission-leak#122379.

A stock style setup using steel or iron gears will work fine. I've been using double-roller chain cam drive setups for nearly 40 years and have yet to experience any loosening, let alone a failure. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by 76Chevelle2Tone Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:37 pm

zucchi wrote:

A stock style setup using steel or iron gears will work fine. I've been using double-roller chain cam drive setups for nearly 40 years and have yet to experience any loosening, let alone a failure. Your mileage may vary.

My point was simply about about being careful to judge the secondary impact of a performance part. I prefer metal myself over plastic (or even aluminum) if such a part can be found  and integrated with other parts without side effect. I'm not concerned about weight. My radiator is copper brass after all haha.
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Post by bracketchev1221 Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:03 pm

I like the cloyes 3023 for street engines as well
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Post by 76 Malibu Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:41 pm

Summit refunded me no questions asked, very good customer service. I ordered a Cloyes 3001K set this time as it the stock replacement set according to Cloyes. This is just a refresher on the mostly stock engine, so it should suffice and I can ditch the nylon sprocket and stretched OEM set..  At some point down the road I plan to do an overhaul and full performance build. So I might as well just stay with a stock style chain for now and upgrade to a true roller then.
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Post by 76 Malibu Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:27 pm

Just to update the tread, the new Cloyes 3001K set when on with no issues. It's a nice quality piece for the money.
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