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1974 Monte Carlo assembly manual

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Post by zucchi Fri Dec 08, 2023 5:01 pm

Anyone have an assembly manual for the 1974 Monte Carlo they could sell or copy for me?
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Post by jerry46765 Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:54 am

I have seen a service manual, overhaul manual, and body service manual (Fisher body manual).  Looking at the assembly manuals for earlier cars, those appear to be created by the aftermarket.  Does a GM assembly manual exist?


Last edited by jerry46765 on Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:55 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Post by zucchi Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:44 am

jerry46765 wrote:I have seen a service manual, overhaul manual, and body service manual (Fisher body manual).  Looking at the assembly manuals for earlier cars, those appear to be created by the aftermarket.  Does a GM assembly manual exist?
Here's one for the 1974 Pontiac Lemans, Grand Am, and Grand Prix…

https://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1974-Pontiac-Lemans-Grand-Am-and-Grand-Prix-Assembly-Manual-Reprint

1974 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 Factory Assembly Manual

https://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1974-Oldsmobile-Bound-Assembly-Manual-Olds-Cutlass-S-Supreme-Vista-Cruiser

1974 Camaro

https://www.ebay.com/itm/140815147376

1974 Corvette…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/362618999033

1974 Nova…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401080375454

They're advertised as reprints. I've reached out to Faxon auto literature and they said they do not have one.
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Post by jerry46765 Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:13 pm

I don't think you are missing out. From what I saw in the early Chevelle assembly manual, someone took info from the body manual and service manuals then combined it to create an 'assembly' manual. It didn't look like there was new information. Helm was the original producer / printer of GM manuals. Helm never originally sold assembly manuals for any of these cars. It's a licensed product someone paid GM restoration to reuse and repackage the same information.
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Post by Keith Seymore Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:55 am

jerry46765 wrote:I have seen a service manual, overhaul manual, and body service manual (Fisher body manual).  Looking at the assembly manuals for earlier cars, those appear to be created by the aftermarket.  Does a GM assembly manual exist?

It did at one time.


jerry46765 wrote:I don't think you are missing out.  From what I saw in the early Chevelle assembly manual, someone took info from the body manual and service manuals then combined it to create an 'assembly' manual.  It didn't look like there was new information.  Helm was the original producer / printer of GM manuals.  Helm never originally sold assembly manuals for any of these cars.  It's a licensed product someone paid GM restoration to reuse and repackage the same information.  

Just to be clear:  there was/is such a thing as an assembly manual (also known as a "PAD" - Product Assembly Document, or "PDM" - Product Description Manual) used internally at GM.  They were created and printed internally, using specialized GM draftsman as graphic artists referring to the original part drawings and vehicle layout blueprints.

They were in several three ring binders binders, separated by tabs by UPC code. ie, 1 = body, 2 = frame, 3 = front axle, 4 = rear axle, 5 = brakes, 6 = engine, 7 = transmission, 10 = tire/wheel.  There would be several sets in the various Inspection offices throughout the plant and would be referenced for in process routings of wiring, hoses, brake and fuel lines, body hole locations and usages, height specifications, etc.

As updates were received the individual pages would be replaced and the old pages discarded.  At the beginning of the model year a whole new set would be received and all the old pages discarded.

I've thrown away more complete sets than I care to remember.  It never even occurred to me to keep any until modern times.  (I followed two of my own personal pickup trucks down the line as they were built and it never occurred to me to keep any of that paperwork).

The reason you only see aftermarket reproductions now (and spotty applications at that) is because they were never intended to be made public.  Pages survived by smuggling them out and most sets were created by combining whatever could be found.

Corvette stuff always exists (they have it easy:  one plant, one product, and a special interest vehicle even when new).  Of the ones I am actively tracking: '69 GTO = yes but '68 GTO = no.  '66 and '67 GTO = yes, but the '64/65 GTO manual has turned up missing from the GTOAA library.

The PDM concept is still in use today to assemble GM vehicles, albeit electronically.

I apologize if I am telling you something you already know, but hopefully there is a reader that will gain a little insight from all this.

K

1974 Monte Carlo assembly manual Img167

1974 Monte Carlo assembly manual Img168


Last edited by Keith Seymore on Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:15 pm; edited 9 times in total
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Post by Keith Seymore Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:30 pm

I grabbed these from the Nova auction above because they are a nice visual of the index.

K


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Post by jerry46765 Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:54 pm

That is pretty cool. It's amazing what gets discarded. I guess other makes did a better job preserving these type of documents.

The only other items that I ran across are the spec sheets with vehicle weights and dimensions on GM Heritage site. It's hit or miss with info is on there.

https://www.gm.com/heritage/archive/vehicle-information-kits
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Post by Keith Seymore Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:42 am

jerry46765 wrote:That is pretty cool.  It's amazing what gets discarded.  I guess other makes did a better job preserving these type of documents.  

The only other items that I ran across are the spec sheets with vehicle weights and dimensions on GM Heritage site.  It's hit or miss with info is on there.  

https://www.gm.com/heritage/archive/vehicle-information-kits
 

I think most of the collections were largely accidental.

The Pontiac records are financial invoices stumbled upon by an engineer with a historical bent (even so, they were dug out of a dumpster on at least two occasions).  The Olds, Buick and Cadillac records were similar and benefitted from being small divisions with a strong central office.

I can’t speak to how the Ford records came into Kevin Marti’s hands.

I asked a Chevy rep one time why Chevrolet did not have a similar set up.  He replied it was just too wide and too scattered to have had any kind of coordinated effort back in the day.

Thank goodness for GM of Canada!

K

Keith Seymore wrote:

Eric -

Have you or anyone ever written an article about the "pre-history" of PHS?

During our trip I asked Fred about the technique he used to find the '62 and '63 Super Duty cars; before answering my question he framed the discussion by giving me the background of how he came to find the records and learn to use them, and how Mattison came to found Pontiac Historic Services.

I was driving and couldn't write anything down but this is how I remember what he said:

Back in the middle 1980's he was "into" HO model trains but as he got older he was frustrated because he couldn't see what he was doing (apparently he has always had poor eyesight). He ended up selling all of his train stuff but found himself without a hobby. His wife suggested that he should get a car so after a brief search he found the '67 Lemans that he still has.

His initial introduction to the Pontiac records was through trying to find out information about his own car. He mentioned to one of the secretaries that he would like to know how his car was built and she said "oh, I can find that out". Sure enough, within a couple days she produced the invoice and option content (sort of a prehistoric "PHS" packet!). He asked her how she did that and she replied that the information still existed on property and that it was guarded by a financial person.

Fred later found out this financial guy was going to retire, so he began to visit with him and learn where the information was located and how it was stored. During this time (still mid 80's?) there was a lot of employee turmoil in the form of retirements and outright separations so there was a lot of stuff getting thrown out. Fred told all his friends he was interested in "right of first refusal" so anything they had that might be interesting was passed by him before being pitched. He said he would literally make a trip home every night with all kinds of photos, literature, memorabilia, hardware, trophies, paint samples, etc.

By this time they were receiving maybe a request or two a day from Pontiac enthusiasts (usually fellow employees) that had heard about this service. Between Fred or his friend they were able to fulfill these requests. Additionally, Fred would come in early and poke around, then maybe return at lunch time and finally spend some time in the records before heading home for the evening, just nosing around.

Eventually the requests got to be too much for one person to handle on a part time basis, maybe 20 or so a day. He and Jim Mattison had been friends before that and Jim had become quite familiar with the records and how they were organized (more on that in a minute). It was at that point that Jim approached Pontiac Motor Division and suggested that he could form a company (Automotive Services) and maintain the records and fulfill these requests for information. At that point the information would still belong to Pontiac (I'm guessing) but he would provide the service as a contractor (I'm sure). All of this was taking place while the records were down in the vault, in the basement of the Administration building.

Eventually, when the Administration building was "closed" (maybe not the right wording, but when the functions were rearranged or offices reallocated) that's when Jim and the records were relocated to Shows & Shoots (which is where I found him). I think you are familiar with the story about Pontiac taking the records back, and in their infinite wisdom they actually threw them out. Jim literally retrieved them from the dumpster which (I suspect) forms the foundation of the dispute over ownership which still exists today or was only recently resolved.

So - about the Super Dutys: The very first request had to do with one of the '62 Super Duty Grand Prix (Allan Gartzman's '62 Grand Prix; one of 16). Fred got a request to check into that car and, having been provided the VIN, he was able to confirm that it was in fact a Super Duty car. There was some variation in how the records were stored based on model year; the '62s were one way (maybe by VIN by Plant) and the '63s were different (like in VIN order by plant but grouped by body style). At any rate what he did was search for that car and then extend his search a little bit in both directions, looking for the engine option code. Eventually, he had a list of VINs going and so he expanded his search to include Catalinas and Bonnevilles (ie, non Grand Prix models) until he had a comprehensive list of 1962 cars. He looked through every 1962 invoice record; He said he continued on into '63 but did not actually look at them all - he went through 160,000 or so invoices but when he got out into the May or June timeframe it had been so long since he had seen any car that even remotely resembled a performance car that he gave up. Bottom line is that Fred literally went through hundreds of thousands of invoices, one by one (on the microfiche) in order to find those cars.

I thought it was fascinating and that others might also be interested. It might be a good idea to get this down on paper (accurately) before it's too late.

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Post by Keith Seymore Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:23 am

Bit of a sidebar, but a cool story (I think) of how Greg Wallace became head of the GM Heritage Center (Greg retired in 2019):



In these cynical times sometimes we believe “no good deed goes unpunished,” but Greg Wallace, manager of the General Motors Heritage Collection established a career for himself by being a Good Samaritan.

Greg tells the story of seeing a Cadillac stopped alongside the road as he was traveling home from his job as a technician at a Cadillac dealership in the mid 1980s. He stopped to see if he could get the car running again. Greg remembers, “I did some fuse swaps and got him back on the road and away he went.” The man driving the car was the assistant general sales manager of Cadillac. About two weeks later Greg got called into the dealer principal’s office and saw the stranded driver sitting there. “I thought, did I screw up his car or what?”

No, he hadn’t screwed up anything, he had started his career with GM.

Cadillac was launching a program to fix Cadillacs alongside the road and Greg was asked to help launch the program. The service proved so popular that people started calling the 800- phone number for everything, not just roadside assistance. Often they called asking how to get parts for vintage Cadillacs. That wasn’t part of Greg’s job, but he loved restoring old cars, so he ended up handling those customer calls. By 1987 he opened up Cadillac Historical Services as a service for the vintage Cadillac owner. Greg says, “That spiraled into the Cadillac Museum and ultimately into the General Motors Heritage Collection.”

The Heritage Center is much more than simply a museum with cars and trucks from the past. Greg says, “We serve a role within the organization as a reference center.”

Greg calls auto restoration “my therapy” and he still has a couple of cars he acquired while he was still in high school, a 1963 Corvette and a 1966 Chevelle. He loves old cars and being associated with them. He says when people come into the Heritage Center “there’s always something to which they can relate.”

While the vehicles in the collection bring back memories for most people, his aim is to make sure the General Motors Heritage Center “conveys something you didn’t know about General Motors.” For example, he tells us GM Research created the first heart-lung machine in 1952.

Greg Wallace is a good guy who lucked into his dream job when he stopped to help a stranded motorist. And he knows he’s lucky. He says, “I haven’t worked a day since I started this job.”

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