need help deciding something

IDK, maybe I'm in a better part of the country. 200's can be found for cheap & if you score one from a 442, GN, or Monte SS, you jsut bought a trans that will hold up to 12-13 second 1/4 mile times without mods. Sure you could get a better servo while you're at it, but HONESTLY you are gonna say that given the opportunity to buy either at the same price you would go for the 700? Both would need going through unless you like gambling on a transmission's condition so the cost of upgrading clutches, bands, & steels is gonna be moot. I guess if you're the type of guy that takes a salvage yards word for the trans being good, a POST-86 700r4 might be a cheap way out... until the worn transmission gives due to all of that new found power you just put in front of it. A 200's real weaknesses are mainly heat (buy an aluminum pan & a good cooler) & bad TV setup (if only people would adjust them correctly). Input shafts, drums, & servos can be upgraded later on as you build more power.

Rago wrote:IDK, maybe I'm in a better part of the country. 200's can be found for cheap & if you score one from a 442, GN, or Monte SS, you jsut bought a trans that will hold up to 12-13 second 1/4 mile times without mods. Sure you could get a better servo while you're at it, but HONESTLY you are gonna say that given the opportunity to buy either at the same price you would go for the 700? Both would need going through unless you like gambling on a transmission's condition so the cost of upgrading clutches, bands, & steels is gonna be moot. I guess if you're the type of guy that takes a salvage yards word for the trans being good, a POST-86 700r4 might be a cheap way out... until the worn transmission gives due to all of that new found power you just put in front of it. A 200's real weaknesses are mainly heat (buy an aluminum pan & a good cooler) & bad TV setup (if only people would adjust them correctly). Input shafts, drums, & servos can be upgraded later on as you build more power.

I agree that IF I found both for the same price I would really think about taking the 200, but the chances are slim to none where I live and where I've lived. The true cheap upgrade factor of 700s is that nearly EVERYTHING inside the latest 4L60E will swap right in no problem, bye a borg warner clutch pack and band, zinc separator plate, and a shift kit and it'll be bullet proof on the cheap I might add. I'm not saying this just to win an arguement though. I work at my uncles transmission shop on the weekends for extra money, and around here (mid texas) the most abundant transmision you can find is the 4L60E. Making replacement parts stupid cheap, nearly TH350 cheap! Because of that we get cores for $50, and when we're asked to rebuild a 700 we use 4L60E internals. The 200 doesn't have such a cheap bugdet upgrade alternative.

alright so is 150 a good price for a 350 block with the double hump heads( what are these btw?) and oil pan and cam shaft and pistons and some other little stuff????


i know for a fact that the block isnt cracked or anything but i forgot to ask why he had the motor apart in the first place but i just texted him ill let you know when he tells me

head are good you get the crank too? also get the numbers off the heads to verify what they are and year if heads are true double humps and all parts there then yea

Yeah it could be an OK deal. Better double check the head casting numbers. Double Hump or Camel Hump heads used to be the heads to have WAY back in the day. Anymore, I'd rather have a set of Vortecs, ported TBI heads, or aftermarket heads just to take advantage of technology & design advancements. For $150 if you get the crank & all of the caps marked I would pick it up.

well cant you just look at the back side of the heads and looko for the 2 humps?

i forgot to ask about the crankshaft too lol but he said the reason he took it apart was to rebuild it but never did

it has all of the valves in it too, but i also have some spare valves but dont know anything abot this so idk if they will work, im pretty sure the valves i have are out of the origional 305 motor that was in my malibu

Yes & no on the hump thing. Yes they might have the double hump casting flash, but no that doesn't mean they are the cream of the crop castings. Some had small valves & wouldn't do much better than a set of 882's other than bump the compression. I forget how many different castings there were, but look at the last three digits for these numbers:

492, 462, 186, 461, 461x, 291

These are castings I know to be Double Humps, there might be more. If you run across a set of 461x heads, those would probably be the ones to sell to a collector & use the money to buy a set of newer heads.

The valves from your 305 heads are junk. 99 times out of 100, they are 1.72/1.30 valves which is WAY too small for a 350 to breath through. Even if you lucked out & someone swapped in bigger valves or you have a set of mid 80's HO heads with 1.84 intake valves, don't try to use them. Small 350 valves are 1.94/1.50.

ok theyr not too expensive right lol

and also idk what kind it is but he has a pretty good cam shaft that would work perfect for this motor that hed sell me for 75 bucks i could get the name later if u want

Not too concerned with the name, but more importantly the specs. Camshaft is one of the last things you need to buy. First plan out your goals for the motor. What will it be used for, how heavy is the car (heavy), what's the gearing (probably not too great), is fuel mileage a concern, etc. Then after deciding those factors, figure out your heads, intake, & compression ratio. After you have decided upon all of this, then you can decide what cam will be good for your motor (or ask some of the gearheads on here). Never before! Find out the duration at .050, lift, lobe separation, & EVERYTHING else about this camshaft before buying it. You can typically find used cams with lifters on Racingjunk, Craigslist, & Ebay for around $75. Heck, I got a Crane Energizer I'll sell for $75 + shipping still in the box with new lifters if you decide to go mild. OTOH New cam & lifter sets can be had for around $120+.

ok thx and i know that this cam shaft is a crane cam but dont know what kind
ill find out
is there anything else i should find out? like anything else that should come with the motor for 150 bucks? cuz he said he has it all and i looked at the heads and block and all that other stuff last night
so what else should i look for


and its going in the malibu in my avatar which i think weighs 3750
i want it to be decent on gas but have a lot of power i want to be able to cut corners real well too and torque so i can take off from a complete stop just like the newer cars are nowadays even though mine is heavier

For a minute there I thought the last line was going to be "and I want it 24 carat gold plated". I am sorry to say there is only so much you can do with limited funds, its just a fact of life. Now if you had a bundle of money, we are just going to play a little game here, I would tell you to get a Dart small block and build from there or to get a 5.3 LS engine out of a late model pickup truck. You would have a lot of tiny details to work out, but others have done it. JB

man jb i thought i told you i was unexperienced like 2 pages ago on this same thread my bad let me find it and i will refresh your memory

here you go for you jb

"ok so i am actually going to buy this engine block for 150 and his friend is going to bore it over for me for a few extra
so any help or tips would be appreciated to an unexperienced engine builder"

alright then since we have to limit this to one thing i am going for torque

In 77malibu77's defense (and since we're throwing ideas out there), you can get 5.3 LS style motors and 4L60E transmissions with all of the wiring harness for around $1,500. All you have to do then is figure out a standalone computer for the motor and trans, or you can run the engine carb'd and cut out some of the wiring. All in all it's a very good deal for an entire drivetrain that's incredibly solid and reliable, and I think that's going to be in one of my cars eventually.

Ok, I'm a little slow on the posts
If all you want is torque, you can pick up an "RV" camshaft for dirt cheap. They make great torque up until about 4,5000 rpm, and then they crap out. They're also good on gas mileage from what I remember from my dad's last build with one of those.

alright thx

Torque? Now you're speaking my language.

I feel that for daily drivers, these car are too heavy to be making high horsepower & get reasonable gas mileage. You want a torque monster? I have a great combination for you. 87-95 Chevy 350 with a small 4 barrel carb & a cam in the 210-220 deg. duration range. A lot of people frown upon the Swirl Port heads that they had, but those heads were designed specifically for two things, low end torque & gas mileage. Check out the specs on Brown Eye's motor & you'll see that's the route that I went. I think by searching around, I have less than $1,000 in it including new parts that could have been reused like the distributor, starter, & water pump. If I would have reused all of my old parts including exhaust manifolds instead of headers, I could have done the entire motor for about $500.

Since you have found a deal already, let's look at what can be done.
Take your $150 worth of parts & check everything over. You may luck out only needing to hone the block & reuse the factory pistons. If not, look towards a couple hundred at the machine shop + the cost of new pistons & rings. New rings & a hone job are gonna be mandatory now anyways since the motor is already disassembled. With those ancient heads, about 9:1 compression is gonna be a safe limit on pump gas. Get a camshaft as described above & NO BIGGER if you want to build low end torque. A good dual plane intake will do wonders for you. Look around for an Edelbrock Performer, Holley 300-36 (various names throughout the years), Weiand Action Plus, or maybe even try out the new Weiand Street Warrior. Depending on which intake you find, either use a Quadrajet or a small square bore carb with 600-650 cfm rating. A set of headers will wake it up as will a free flowing exhaust. There are more things you can do depending on your budget such as roller or roller tipped rockers, electric fans, aluminum water pump, etc.

For torque Rago is right, except I would forgo the 350 and get a junkyard 454 out of a truck. Truck engines have the "RV" type cam in them. The 454 will pretty much kill your gas milage. JB

yeah i want to have good gas mileage tho and im already getting this 350 motor anyway
rago i think you just described everything that i am needing and it sounds perfect and also i have a good set of headers i am going to be putting on it that are in my elky
i also have a 4 bbl edelbrock carb it just needs rebuilt but its on the elky now

now heres my two cents on the big block issue had a 53 chevy truck with camaro subframe and 72 chevelle rear end with 3.08 gears motor was 454 block 396 crank punched .060 over wiend tunnel ram twin 650 holley double pumpers comp cams 280(if i remember right) with th350 trans with shift kit truck got 20mpg unless your foot got heavy run 65mph at tick under 2,000 rpm and would go sideways down the interstate if you mashed the gas. thats just like with my 75 monte i had and 74 chevelle heck even when i got my 77 every one said they're gas hog well thats bs all three got damn close to 20 mpg with proper tune

Well here's yet another alternative. Pick up a 6.0L from a salvage yard like I did. Do a carb swap while leaving the truck cam, then bolt it to a 700. I picked up my 6.0L for just $900 with 54K miles on it, just needed rings and bearings, and it bolts right to the TH350, and 700R4. Thats 350hp and 350ftlbs, and overdrive on a pretty tight budget.

Malicruiser wrote:Well here's yet another alternative. Pick up a 6.0L from a salvage yard like I did. Do a carb swap while leaving the truck cam, then bolt it to a 700. I picked up my 6.0L for just $900 with 54K miles on it, just needed rings and bearings, and it bolts right to the TH350, and 700R4. Thats 350hp and 350ftlbs, and overdrive on a pretty tight budget.

Did you even need the rings, or did you replace them for your own comfort? As good as newer engines are these days I don't know if you would need to do that unless there was low compression or low oil pressure. Most yards can check at least those two things for you before you get the engine.