Re: 1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali

by Bruisr Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:50 pm

I've done this several times myself, I've noticed when It was 180 out it seemed like it wasn't firing at all.

by 77mali Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't think that's it- I checked the little alignment marks on the shaft.

I'll double check it however. My brain has a habit of thinking something & then it gets lost sometimes on the way to my hands, LOL.

Thanks.

by bigredlaguna Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:29 am

Even if it were 180 off, it would do something if the timing was even close. Were you able to get a timing light to flash?

by 77mali Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:44 am

I haven't got that far Bigred, just trying to get fire right now so it turns over & runs for the cam break-in. I think I'm going to take the rotor apart & clean it & look for any breaks, etc. Maybe it's a loose spring or something or maybe even the coil.

by bigredlaguna Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:30 pm

It would be an easy test to see if your ignition is even working. If your light flashes, then the system is fine and it is a timing issue.

I've had a couple of engines that I thought were lined up, but had to advance/retard so far, that I actually had to remove the wires from the cap and move them over to the next post. Those engines behaved like yours just did, turning over, but nothing happening.

by bigredlaguna Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:34 pm

If the timing is that far off, you can check it with the timing light by moving the inductor clip from the #1 wire to the next to see if that cylinder is closer to where the #1 is supposed to be.

by 77mali Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:38 pm

I actually figured it out- funny story....LOL (Timing is everything in more ways than one).

The rotor was pointed @ #1 TDC- what I failed to do was adjust the cap a little bit. The rotor was in between two cap terminals, so I had to move the bottom of the Dist so that the designated cap terminal (for the #1 wire) was right on top of the rotor pointing to the cylinder...DUH.

So I did this early this am & Kaboom...so there is now spark. I did not turn it over all the way yet to run it because as I was cranking the motor the other day she got flooded. I'm waiting for evaporation & most of the plugs drying off Laughing

by ant7377 Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:31 pm

Didja fix it? ! Did you cut the holes in the hood for the glass packs to stick out of?

P.S.

Paul.off topic but do you have one of those Boston accents? Calling a car a Caah? Baston and so forth? Laabstah? LOL Laughing

by Limey SE Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:43 am

ant7377 wrote:Didja fix it? ! Did you cut the holes in the hood for the glass packs to stick out of?

P.S.

Paul.off topic but do you have one of those Boston accents? Calling a car a Caah? Baston and so forth? Laabstah? LOL

Funny you ask him that ..... For when I was listening to Online Police scanner whilst the terrorist thing and there accents were making me crack up

by 77mali Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:44 am

So- ya friggin bastahds got nothin betta ta do than razz on my accent? I said the friggin spahk plugs ah dryin out, right? Go pahk ya cahs in the yahd & bite me. LOL

Waddaya got one-a them friggin New York accents there Ant? Whenya say Paul does it sound like Powl? Where's the middle finger emote on this thing?????? Here's a moon then....(_!_) Laughing

by thatfnthing Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:28 am

77mali wrote:So- ya friggin bastahds got nothin betta ta do than razz on my accent? I said the friggin spahk plugs ah dryin out, right? Go pahk ya cahs in the yahd & bite me. LOL

Waddaya got one-a them friggin New York accents there Ant? Whenya say Paul does it sound like Powl? Where's the middle finger emote on this thing?????? Here's a moon then....(_!_)

I so needed a chuckle this morning. Thank you very much! Smile

P.S. Who fahted?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

by 77mali Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Glad to be of help. BTW- I think I mightah fahted but I'll blame it on the friggin dahg.

Yeah we really do talk that way.

by 77mali Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:01 pm

I have a very lengthy amount of expletives I'd like to utter right now.

I know for a fact that the timing gear is lined up & gone over everything else twice now- even took the valve cover off to confirm the rotors alignment w/ #1. Plenty of power coming out of the dist on cranking- getting 12 volts on the multimeter coming "out" of the module so the dist is good. I even cleaned the damn thing with CRC electrical parts spray solvent. There seems to be spark- it is popping & I'm getting spent fumes out of the secondaries on the carb.

Couple of thoughts:

The other thing too might be the starter I guess...it seems that after the crank rotates more than two turns it looses a bit of umph.
Maybe I'll try to realign that a bit. It's contacting fine but seems like a bit of a tight fit on the flywheel.

I wonder if I should try an extra ground? I've seen people use extra ground wires connected to one of the smaller thread holes on the back of the manifold. Also I've read that if you get rid of the gasket that it will ground better directly on the block- which would eliminate the need for the extra ground wire. Anyone using & extra ground & if so where did you connect it on the distributor?

Thoughts? Thanks!

by jerry46765 Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:39 pm

Holy crap, I just looked back in this thread.
Is that the whole car loom and usig the steering column to start it?
Sorry, if this has already been discussed...

I guess you are testing everything, so once you have all the issues sorted out, it will be golden in the car.

So it won't start? Does it pop, spudder, freewheel, what while starting?

If the distributor is in the block, it's grounded.

Put a battery charger on it and leave it on until you go in at night to sleep.
I am not sure about a tight starter. If it engages/disengages, doesn't make a ringing sound on the starter ring, it's not too close. Just make sure it's not cocked out of alignment. Is it a mini-starter or OEM style?

Go through the wiring connections again...

I made a test stand 20 years ago for one specific engine. My dad took it, cleaned it all up, sorted out some stuff, and made it pretty easy to use. Every fuel injected motor through my shop goes across it. It's amazing what you find. Funny, when my kid was younger, he was always disappointed because we would never ride it around the yard...

by jerry46765 Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:14 am

Ok, I went back and read up to date.

You have fuel & spark?

Try this ---
Pull #1 spark plug out,
disconnect power from HEI,
hold your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole,
crank the engine until, you feel compression (piston coming up),
stop cranking,
pull distributor cap off and make sure rotor is right before #1 in the cap,
if not adjust it...

Install #1 plug, connect HEI power, start engine, enjoy...

by bigredlaguna Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:32 am

jerry46765 wrote:Ok, I went back and read up to date.

You have fuel & spark?

Try this ---
Pull #1 spark plug out,
disconnect power from HEI,
hold your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole,
crank the engine until, you feel compression (piston coming up),
stop cranking,
pull distributor cap off and make sure rotor is right before #1 in the cap,
if not adjust it...

Install #1 plug, connect HEI power, start engine, enjoy...

I agree with this. It is always the basics that get you, especially in a delayed action build like this.

by 77mali Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:44 am

If that's the case then the darn timing mark on the balancer must be off. I've done all the crap I was supposed to. I'll try it again after the adjustments I mentioned previously too.

And yes Jerry- I'm sorting it all out before the damn thing is back in the car. Despite the problem I'm currently having- it's much easier to work on it off the car like this. I hate doing 180* yoga stretches over/under engine bays with things in my way. My bad back is at least thanking me for this. LOL

Thanks for the reply's guys.

by pila Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:43 am

Not to tell you how to fix the problem, but at some point you need to verify where top-dead-center is on #1, and what the timing mark on the balancer indicates at TDC.
A piston stop is is the easy/simple way to locate TDC.
Easier to do it now than later....
So, with #1 on compression stroke (thumb in the spark plug hole)......back it off about 45 degrees before top center. Remove all plugs. screw piston stop in #1 plug hole. Rotate engine clockwise by hand until piston stops. Mark balancer.
Then. rotate in opposite direction until piston hits the stop. Mark balancer.

Halfway between your marks on the balancer is top-dead center, which you can find my measuring, and that is where the timing mark should be, if it isn't. Older balancer rings sometimes slip on the rubber mounting.
Without knowing where TDC is, timing will be a guessing game to some degree...

by 77mali Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:29 pm

Bill- Thanks.

If the Balancer mark is off- I'll definitely be doing this. (I Might even buy a timing compass thingy.) I did opt for a new harmonic balancer with the rebuild. The sealant in the old one was failing for some strange reason. This new balancer looks identical to my old one & looks like a rebuilt/resealed unit.

I'm going to try again later or this weekend hopefully. Going to see if the starter makes more torque with minor adjustments. I'm going into half-shim mode in order to try & get it perfect. It was sticking (or staying on after like 2 turns) but only very slightly. I think it had to do with the old flywheel. I replaced the starter last season but the old wheel was still on & it no doubt formed itself on the small starter wheel becuse it was beat up. I had to use a full 1/16" + half of a 1/32" & it looks better- another half 1/16" should get me there. We'll see if that will make a difference.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE REPLIES!!!! Much appreciated.

by 77mali Tue May 07, 2013 3:40 pm

Well after some time off due to other obligations, I finally got a chance to take another look at things. Turns out the new oil pan & the side of the starter were touching ever so slightly causing a misalignment. I'm pretty sure that this caused the problem with the pinion gear getting a bit caught on the flywheel & thereby causing the crank not to spin to it's fullest.

When torquing the 2 bolts there was a slight movement just @ the very end. This had me confounded as, at first, I thought it might be touching somewhere on the engine stand. Anyway- going to shave a bit more off of the oil pan by the dipstick hole to get it dead nuts. I also took off the starters solenoid in order to get the spring pressure off the pinion gear so that it moves freely & to place a paper clip in between the flywheel. Also- didn't even need to shim doing it this way.

Hey James- the simple little Sh!t is murder, LOL. Very Happy

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050410

(Will be clean up before going back in the car)
1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050411

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050412

Made sure Dist is correct also. Engine is at TDC now but like Bill suggested I'm going to back it off approx 45* & try to turn it then. Little bit more to do & fingers crossed (again).
1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050413

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050413

Here's a view from the PCV...Looks like #1 on the dist is where it ought to be.
1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050414

by dynchel Tue May 07, 2013 4:05 pm

Watch for oil blow by around those auto zone breathers. I had the same ones (twice). And oil would bypass the breather completely and pool on the valve cover. I ended up putting a breather oil cap (bought from eBay) and a regular old pcv valve in the opposite cover. Never had a problem since. I like your way of working out the bugs with the engine out, I always have to fight with it in the car.

by 77mali Tue May 07, 2013 10:03 pm

dynchel wrote:Watch for oil blow by around those auto zone breathers. I had the same ones (twice). And oil would bypass the breather completely and pool on the valve cover. I ended up putting a breather oil cap (bought from eBay) and a regular old pcv valve in the opposite cover. Never had a problem since. I like your way of working out the bugs with the engine out, I always have to fight with it in the car.

dynchel wrote:I have tried those PVC breathers from auto zone (two different times to be exact) and they didn't work well for me. The one time i was leaving for work and the engine started smoking, upon inspection i found oil was blowing right past the breather and pooling (and burning off the valve cover& exhaust). I installed a standard PVC right in the valve cover, the way Chevy did it, and never had another problem. I definitely looked better with the breather. Just my two cents.

77mali wrote:If that happens, I still have the regular style PCV. I'll be able to tell right away. They are not the best quality. A company on ebay sells billet style breathers & PCV's w/ housings you can take apart to clean the breather element & remove & replace the PCV unit for about $18 ea. I'm going that route once the motor is back in the car.

LOL...thought I was havin' Deja Vu or maybe a little too much Beer

in my system tonight Very Happy

by dynchel Tue May 07, 2013 10:45 pm

My bad.

by 77mali Tue May 07, 2013 10:50 pm

I appreciate the advice...just having some fun. Wink

Points for concern & passing along product knowledge. Very Happy

by 77mali Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:04 pm

Well I d!cked around w/ this off & on for way too long so I made some changes. No matter what I did I could not get it right (and believe me I tried to).

So I swapped out the large 168 tooth for the smaller 153 flexplate & got a hi torque mini to make sure it will spin. Now I just have to figure out the wiring as it has one of those "black lead" wires on it. scratch

Hopefully it won't be too hard & this works...I spent a little...LOL

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050511

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050512

1977 Chevelle Malibu Classic Progress Photo's aka Mali - Page 19 P1050513

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